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Train burglaries in LA

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Re: Train burglaries in LA

#131

Post by mleonhard »

vecinu wrote: post #76
mngnt wrote: post #36

I would expect this kind of pictures from a third world country... How come no one is incentivized to fix this - protect the trains, prevent this loss of property? Who pays for the stolen goods? I presume it would be the retailers, is it just a drop in the ocean for them? In some more dystopian movies there were trains crossing vast areas of postapocalyptic hellscape protected by soldiers with machine guns and flamet…

It's so hard to have this discussion with people that live in California but a lot of the scenes in SF and LA are literally out of developing, corrupt countries. I think people just don't want to admit how bad it has gotten because then they have to face their fears and take some action to change their future. Homelessness, crime, theft, lack of security, mentally ill people in droves on the street, "do not go areas"…

SF city government provides housing for about half of the city's homeless people. The homeless and mentally ill people in SF come from all over USA. You see them SF, but I don't think SF shares much of the blame for their suffering. American voters are to blame, mostly Americans who voted for Republicans who reduced government spending on social services.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#132

Post by Ansil849 »

tibiapejagala wrote: post #123
Ansil849 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unilaterally and directly harm other people. Which is precisely what "punishment" does. Try being less vindictive and more understanding about the root circumstances that lead someone to perform an act of desperation.

No, punishment is not unilateral, it’s right there in the word definition.

I would be extremely interested in what definition of punishment you are using where punishment is defined as not being unilateral, which would mean it's some sort of bilateral punishment with consent of the punished party?

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#134

Post by Ansil849 »

Bancakes wrote: post #126
Ansil849 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unilaterally and directly harm other people. Which is precisely what "punishment" does. Try being less vindictive and more understanding about the root circumstances that lead someone to perform an act of desperation.

Nope. The criminal is the one who needs to realize and internalise his desperation, and move on to a better life. Everyone has needs, get in line sunshine.

> and move on to a better life

That's exactly what is being attempted via the theft.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#135

Post by Bancakes »

Ansil849 wrote: post #134
Bancakes wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. The criminal is the one who needs to realize and internalise his desperation, and move on to a better life. Everyone has needs, get in line sunshine.

> and move on to a better life That's exactly what is being attempted via the theft.

Obviously theft is not a long-term solution. Being a lowlife is no way to live. There are people working the skin off their bones on two jobs just to barely live. And some entitled shmuck wants the easy way out?

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#136

Post by Ansil849 »

dkdbejwi383 wrote: post #128
Ansil849 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't have to be the lock that's secured. What about a hinge mechanism which takes a programmable amount of time to open the container door? If it takes 10 minutes for the door to open, the lock doesn't matter as much, since the thieves have a very limited amount of time before the trains start moving again, apparently.

That sounds like it could be quite error prone. If it's electronic, what about power failures? If mechanical, sounds like lots of intricate machined parts which will wear down over time.

Time locks have been around for more than 100 years, I'm pretty confident that if something like this was desired by the powers that be, it would have been implemented. What I'm assuming is stopping it aren't the engineering challenges, but the fact that currently it's cheaper to let the thefts happen than it is to mitigate them.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#137

Post by ehnto »

Ansil849 wrote: post #31
20after4 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very difficult to make a lock that is really secure. Bolt cutters and battery powered saws / grinders are very powerful, portable and effective tools to cut through metal.

Average time needed to get into a container (X) needs to be > average time train pauses (Y). This seems like it should be a solvable problem. For example, just thinking out loud, what about some sort of container door hinge mechanism which takes five minutes (or an adjustable amount of time) to open the door?

Not much within reason that you can do to stop a portable oxy torch, and the train doesn't need to be stopped, they just need to hop on and off at the right times. People hop moving trains all the time. All you're doing is shifting the numbers around in the same equation.

But I think the bigger issue is just that you're talking about retrofitting an aspect of the global transport complex. Why would the entire shipping industry change it's approach to standardized containers just to stop some thieves at a specific American spot? The cost of using special containers for this specific route would be prohibitive I imagine, and hard to manage the logistics of.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#138

Post by Youden »

jorvi wrote: post #113
dusted wrote: post #102

My observation from the comment sections to this post-apocalyptic video is the following: People focusing on how to prevent the theft of these cars, funding police, armed guards on trans, better security. I think this is an interesting perspective, it's very "American", it's like it has been accepted by these commenters that rampant thievery is a perfectly natural part of life and so, must be worked around rather tha…

> Like putting locks and security on your home, "Now they won't break into MY home, because the guy next door has less security, so they'll go at him instead". This is not uniquely American. In the EU so many people by SUVs (despite the impracticality in smaller European streets) “because it’ll make sure I have the benefit in a car crash”. It is technically correct but such an extremely cold statement.

You'll have to be more specific than "EU" because I've never seen an American-style SUV in Western Europe. Closest I can get is a crossover SUV like a Mercedes GLA.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#139

Post by adriancr »

acron0 wrote: post #129
jorvi wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like putting locks and security on your home, "Now they won't break into MY home, because the guy next door has less security, so they'll go at him instead". This is not uniquely American. In the EU so many people by SUVs (despite the impracticality in smaller European streets) “because it’ll make sure I have the benefit in a car crash”. It is technically correct but such an extremely cold statement.

I've literally never heard this, after having lived in the EU for almost 40 years.

It is a thing in Romania with larger cars like BMW X5 and so on.

That's mostly because it was fairly easy to get a drivers license with bribes up until a few years after joining EU. (until the anti-corruption agency was set up)

Also due to crappy roads and very aggressive drivers in larger cities. Rich people would just buy the larger car to protect children either from their stupidity or other drivers.

Re: Train burglaries in LA

#140

Post by Z0rr0 »

rrdharan wrote: post #114
dusted wrote: post #102

My observation from the comment sections to this post-apocalyptic video is the following: People focusing on how to prevent the theft of these cars, funding police, armed guards on trans, better security. I think this is an interesting perspective, it's very "American", it's like it has been accepted by these commenters that rampant thievery is a perfectly natural part of life and so, must be worked around rather tha…

This seems like a silly and needlessly anti-American framing. There’s plenty of high profile theft in Europe - more in fact, since the security is so lax: https://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/17/world/europe/Picasso-and-... European “security” has also given us gems like the Brussels and Manchester arena bombings. I don’t know why people in glass houses insist on throwing so many stones.

You are confusing high profile art theft in Europe with low profile UPS theft in the US.

The trains are clearly being robbed out of desperation by the poorest citizens. If those citizens lived in the EU, they would have free healthcare, free education, unemployment subsidies and housing. And so they would not be forced to steal our packages.

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