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Exploring System76's New Rust Based Desktop Environment

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Re: Exploring System76's New Rust Based Desktop Environment

#261

Post by awrmc »

Shared404 wrote: post #242
addicted wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that have anything to do with the DE though? Isn’t that a change that could have simply been made to the Gnome settings itself?

It could, but hasn't been - and GNOME is hostile to users/devs doing such things so it probably never will.

That's categorically false, there are issues to fix both of those in the gnome settings:

https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-control-center/-/issues...

https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-control-center/-/issues...

Re: Exploring System76's New Rust Based Desktop Environment

#263

Post by michaelmrose »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #194
michaelmrose wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gnome doesn't want thousands of developers implementing their own visions for their projects and others don't want to donate their time to implementing gnomes vision. The proper thing for them all to do is all implement their own visions and people to use or work on what they please. Nobody asks why Tesla, Ford, and Toyota are wasting everyone's resources by being different company. Nobody suggests having different c…

I understand. Tesla, Ford, and Toyota all have cars that work though. They all work so well you can basically swap any of them out and the user doesn't have to change anything. The user can pick any of those cars and do well. I'm not talking about cars though, I'm talking about Linux not getting a lot of traction on desktop because of too much choice. The mainstream environments are often not viable for somebody tryi…

Insofar as the overall level of hardware support and available software on Linux suits you then you could certainly use certainly use any of several interfaces especially on X11.

Re: Exploring System76's New Rust Based Desktop Environment

#264

Post by SkyMarshal »

jolux wrote: post #225
twblalock wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's like buying a Toyota, you know from the brand alone that you're getting a certain baseline level of reliability, maintainability, durability, and longevity. Rust is like the Toyota of programming languages - it can produce many different types of cars/programs, but they're all guaranteed to come with a baseline level of assurance, and to eliminate common classes of problems that degrade the end-user experience…

> It's possible to make buggy, slow, crappy software in any language. True. > Rust is no exception. Also true. > Nobody should derive any confidence from the language a product is written in. This, on the other hand, is a non-sequitur, or at least it's too strong, because Rust can do things that C can't do : safe deterministic memory management and safe concurrency without data races. These things are not just availa…

> they are the defaults in Rust.

Exactly, this is what I should have explicitly said. Language defaults have a powerful effect on a project's norms and culture.

> You have to go out of your way to get these things wrong.

Yes, you actually have to try to write shitty Rust code, at least where there are defaults that prevent it. Thus the average Rust program will have that baseline level of quality. Like TQM/TPM/Six-Sigma for manufacturing software.

Re: Exploring System76's New Rust Based Desktop Environment

#265

Post by xvilka »

nopenopenopeno wrote: post #189
pkulak wrote: post #64

I know that open source and Linux in general don't need/want another DE, but selfishly... I really want System76 to succeed. They give me the same kind of feeling I had when Apple was kicking butt in the early 2000s. And I think that for them to become a general-audience company, they need to really own more of their software. They have some great ideas, and they've already plugin'ed Gnome to within and inch of it's…

I left PopOS and never looked back when I needed nvidia-docker to do some deep learning work and learned they had knowingly made it difficult to impossible to reliably use nvidia-docker with PopOS, and they recommended their own unmaintained project that doesn’t even intend to be a replacement for nvidia-docker. It couldn’t have been more useless to me. Breaking compatibility with Ubuntu-compatible dev tools is one t…

Blame NVIDIA instead. If they had open source their blobs, it would have been everywhere out of the box. Most evil company for open source ever.

Re: Exploring System76's New Rust Based Desktop Environment

#266

Post by gpm »

btdmaster wrote: post #125
pkulak wrote: post #64

I know that open source and Linux in general don't need/want another DE, but selfishly... I really want System76 to succeed. They give me the same kind of feeling I had when Apple was kicking butt in the early 2000s. And I think that for them to become a general-audience company, they need to really own more of their software. They have some great ideas, and they've already plugin'ed Gnome to within and inch of it's…

It seems to use wayland: https://github.com/pop-os/cosmic-comp/blob/main/src/main.rs#... .

Yet it also seems to be using an "x11 backend" (only) for now... not sure what to make of this without reading the code a lot closer.

https://github.com/pop-os/cosmic-comp/blob/main/src/backend/...

Re: Exploring System76's New Rust Based Desktop Environment

#267

Post by blinkingled »

LeoPanthera wrote: post #159
blinkingled wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if you have tried recent versions of Plasma but they have made a great deal of progress on all fronts including fixing a lot of bugs. I don't encounter any on day to day basis on Tumbleweed which gets you the latest version.

I am in fact running Tumbleweed as well. Maybe it's just because I don't live in the happy path but I still encounter bugs daily.

To be fair I have just learned to ignore minor and even some bigger ones that have workarounds - my task bar is right now showing the speaker on every app's icon even though only FF is playing YT - I noticed I ignored it until I decided to look for problems lol!

What I meant was crashes, freezes, data loss, things just not working type of things are rarer now a days and I personally will much rather take the remaining bugs instead of spending a ton of money and subjecting myself to Apple's whims or Windows advertising.

Re: Exploring System76's New Rust Based Desktop Environment

#268

Post by blinkingled »

Narishma wrote: post #172
blinkingled wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if you have tried recent versions of Plasma but they have made a great deal of progress on all fronts including fixing a lot of bugs. I don't encounter any on day to day basis on Tumbleweed which gets you the latest version.

Here's a small one I encounter on a daily basis on Tumbleweed: the update notifications scrolling is broken. It scrolls the list of updates super slowly and goes back to the top when it reaches the end instead of just stopping. Another small one: I've set the panel to auto-hide. It works fine for the most part but occasionally it will stay visible until I minimize and restore any window.

Yep I remember the auto hide bug happening to me on smaller screen some time ago - now a days I work on big monitors mostly and don't need to auto hide it.

Re: Exploring System76's New Rust Based Desktop Environment

#269

Post by xvilka »

SkyMarshal wrote: post #180
ijidak wrote: post #91

I know we developers love our languages. But I'm always skeptical when underlying language choice is featured prominently as a selling point for any new project. It tells me, this is a technology-first, users-second enthusiast project. And thus, I'll be surprised if it tackles the deepest issues users need solved. That doesn't mean it isn't cool as a proof of concept for a new or popular language. It just makes me qu…

> But I'm always skeptical when underlying language choice is featured prominently as a selling point for any new project. > It tells me, this is a technology-first, users-second enthusiast project. > And thus, I'll be surprised if it tackles the deepest issues users need solved. Some of the deepest issues that users need solved are ones that Rust was designed to solve at the language and compiler level. 1. System st…

I would add from experience, that using Rust would increase the speed of development like with any higher-level language than C and without the need to track memory problems. It shifts focus more on the actual development. Cargo helps to this cause as well, not always though.

Re: Exploring System76's New Rust Based Desktop Environment

#270

Post by michaelmrose »

awrmc wrote: post #256
smoldesu wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Gnome doesn't want thousands of developers implementing their own visions for their projects and others don't want to donate their time to implementing gnomes vision. This is definitely looking more-and-more like the case. The GNOME team's insistence on cutting people out of their workflow has left them with less contributors... which leaves them with a worse desktop and a roadmap that's being pushed further-and-fu…

It's not easy for me to take this comment seriously because gnome doesn't actually have anything anyone could define as leadership. It's a decentralized open source thing. You might be incorrectly assuming bad faith.

Every semi persistent grouping of individuals has leadership even if informal and redhat and the gnome foundation have defined leadership structures.
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