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I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

cushychicken.github.io

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Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#871

Post by caddemon »

baobabKoodaa wrote: post #859
caddemon wrote: post #760

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better in-house training would allow companies to increase their potential candidate pool.

Sure, most forms of education will increase the candidate pool in the long term. But in the short term there isn't much you can do to increase the candidate pool, you can only shift candidates from one company to another.

That's fair, I do think people expect instant solutions to these kinds of problems too often. But the flip side of that is I don't see too many companies actually investing in training, so this could remain a problem much longer than it needs to.

In my (admittedly brief) experience at a FAANG I also noticed there were some very menial tasks taking up engineer time. I'm pretty confident there is work to be done at these larger companies that could be satisfactorily accomplished by someone within their first year of training.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#872

Post by ido »

glitchalumni wrote: post #432
pjmlp wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Over in Europe and East Asia, $50 to $60k salaries are the norm Yes, and we have plenty of nice stuff that goes along with it Healthcare, 30 paid holidays, unions, paid overtime, weekends and calls off work come extra (it is 40h week period, want more pay for it), retirement, flex time, ... Like the OP, my expenses are more than covered, getting more isn't worth the hassle to change. Ah, and in some countries havin…

We are talking about 50-60k before taxes here though (e.g. healthcare isn't included yet) - there really is not that much left in the end, especially compared to the US where quite some companies will match our European amenities (talking about software engineering jobs). Also all inclusive contracts are quite common or some legal workarounds with payed overtime after x amount of hours (where x amount would be workin…

There is literally an IT workers union in Austria (when we lived there every job came with a minimum pay based on Kollektivvertrag for the role - you could get more than the minimum of course).

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#873

Post by quickthrower2 »

voakbasda wrote: post #769
quickthrower2 wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s possible for already wealthy people though. Poor people need $x per month. A bit more wealth and cashflow is not an issue and so you can look at $x per decade. In that scenario taking a gap year to bash leetcode and interviews is perfectly rational. Its a 10% tax at worst.

So you think it better to discriminate according to the size of a candidate’s bank account? From where I sit, you are saying the poor do not deserve the same chance. I think age discrimination would be less offensive to the masses.

The opposite. I’m observing why the rich can get richer, because they don’t need to make ends meet. But I am not saying it’s a good state of affairs.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#874

Post by askafriend »

BoorishBears wrote: post #837
Infinitesimus wrote: post #736

Earlier quoted context omitted.

L6 (~ Staff eng) new hire offers at rich big co usually are af 250 base and 250-300k/yr in stock. See levels.fyi for some recent ones.

250-300k and 250k base still seems pretty uncommon for my role (mobile development) The only company I see doing that somewhat consistently is Fa.. Meta, and they're slipping into the same place Amazon is, where they need to pile on TC to make up for an image problem

I can tell you this is not true.

It's common at top companies - they are all competitive with FAANG comp. You will easily pull in $400-500k in total compensation as a mobile dev at sayyyy an AirBnB or similar. Roughly even split between base and equity.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#875

Post by lostcolony »

hiq wrote: post #867
lostcolony wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One other thing - in evaluating a new role, the thing I can be SURE of...is comp. Everything else is a nicety, but I can't rely on it. So if I'm looking to jump...well, either my current environment isn't great, or the salary is enough to attract me. There is no situation where my current environment is good, and you offer me a salary comparable to what I'm making, and I would make the jump, because you are a -comple…

> But ultimately the only thing I can truly rely on, that is protected by law, is compensation. In some countries, the working time is also protected by law, hence your hourly wage as well, which makes it easier to compare offers. Too many people focus on the TC without realizing that working 2x the time for 1.5x the pay is often not worth it.

Fair point; in the US any of these roles will be salaried and exempt, so actual hours will be up in the air.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#876

Post by BoorishBears »

askafriend wrote: post #874
BoorishBears wrote: post #837

Earlier quoted context omitted.

250-300k and 250k base still seems pretty uncommon for my role (mobile development) The only company I see doing that somewhat consistently is Fa.. Meta, and they're slipping into the same place Amazon is, where they need to pile on TC to make up for an image problem

I can tell you this is not true. It's common at top companies - they are all competitive with FAANG comp. You will easily pull in $400-500k in total compensation as a mobile dev at sayyyy an AirBnB or similar. Roughly even split between base and equity.

Isn't your comment confirming what I said?

If 400k (where I am with 250k base) to 500k (where I'd be with a 50:50 split) is the entire range you're mentioning, that's the same as saying "250k - 350k RSUs with 250k base is uncommon" isn't it?

-

It might be relative to my situation: I have 8 YOE experience, I'm in mobile, and most people I can talk to candidly about salary are similar. So the numbers I hear directly might be tinted by the fact ~8 YOE isn't usually enough for band topping L6 offers

That being said, even Levels.fyi isn't showing me mobile devs negotiating 250k base without giving up anything on RSUs is a common situation (it definitely wasn't when I got my job, but even with the current market craze that feels like a stretch)

If I'm missing something I'm glad to know more, one undersold upside of the current market is you don't absolutely have to job hop to push for more comp

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#877

Post by lmm »

tharkun__ wrote: post #836
lmm wrote: post #676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FWIW, this was simply an example to refute the absolute claim of the parent and the article that only the savings rate matters for when you will be able to retire. This one counter example disproved that. But you don't have a counterexample, not unless you can show someone actually succeeding in retiring on a different savings rate. Plenty of people think they'll be happy to live more cheaply when they've retired,…

You make statements about all people. You are the one that has to prove that this is true. My counter example works perfectly because I only need one. Specifically we still buy used skates for the kids, even though I would definitely have the money to buy new ones. Same for the vacations. They can tell me about Disney Land all they want and even though I could buy that cash right now, I will not.

So you did increase your savings rate after all?

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#878

Post by LdSGSgvupDV »

giantg2 wrote: post #70
anonporridge wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, I feel like engineers are much more likely to be attracted the FIRE mentality and tend to have the incomes and low spending habits that can get them retired easily by their mid 30s. I'm personally in that boat, and frankly, I'm a little bored but not bored enough to go back to work as an SE full time. If companies offered more part time work and highly flexible work, it might be enough to drag me back in. Even…

"that can get them retired easily by their mid 30s" Maybe a small subset. The median dev salary is $110k. So no, only a very small number are able to retire in their 30s.

But, this small subset is what company urges to have. If they are willing to lower down the baseline, there are still quite many engineers around the world.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#879

Post by [deleted] »

giantg2 wrote: post #763
freyr wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re being too hard on yourself. You suck at interviewing, you suck at applying to high-paying jobs, or you don’t live near high-paying jobs.

I got about a 4.5% effective pay cut this year. I'm 10 years in with an MS and I'm only a midlevel making under $100k. I don't think those excuses apply.

[deleted]

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#880

Post by jdavis703 »

avgcorrection wrote: post #812
jdavis703 wrote: post #720

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I call BS on this, at least in America. I went to community college and a middling state university. Pell Grants combined with various STEM and achievement-based scholarships covered my tuition and then some. When I graduated I applied for two jobs and had three offers (my current employer at the time also wanted to keep me).

I love these anecdotes. The only way to disagree with these is to tell the OP that they are too talented and skilled and that the average person wouldn’t make it in their shoes.

According to IQ tests I am literally mentally “retarded” and my SAT scores were in the lowest percentiles. I honestly have no idea how I got a BS degree and have worked in tech for over a decade. But if my dumb ass can do it, so can others.
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