The Worrisome Rise of NFTs • Hacker News Board

Re: The Worrisome Rise of NFTs

#71

Post by legutierr » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 10:50 PM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #21

The worst thing is the constant and malicious lie being perpetuated. You do not own an NFT in any legal or moral sense. The ownership is not recognised in any country, by any court or international body. All you have is an entry in a logical database that says you own it. But unless you have signed a contract with the seller transferring or licensing copyright then it as meaningless as you buying a certificate saying…

"NFT" means "Non-fungible token". It means that one token of a type is not strictly equivalent to another token of the same type. It does not mean "a link to a JPEG that is hosted on OpenSea."

> You do not own an NFT in any legal or moral sense.

Often this is the case, but it doesn't need to be the case, it shouldn't be the case, and it was never intended to be the case.

Yes, it is stupid that people are buying NFTs that are not linked to a legal or contractual grant of intellectual property. However, it is also the case that there are in fact NFTs being sold that do in fact attempt to convey an ownership right via contract.

Re: The Worrisome Rise of NFTs

#72

Post by dralley » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 10:51 PM UTC

Zamicol wrote: post #43

labrador wrote: post #11

I'm as concerned as the next person about energy use, but I did read some counterpoints in an article published yesterday [1] The House Energy and Commerce Committee’s Oversight and Investigations Subcommittee is reportedly going to investigate cryptocurrency’s effect on the environment... But the meme that bitcoin or cryptocurrency uses as much power as one country or another, promoted by The New York Times last Sep…

NTF's aren't on Bitcoin. They're on Ethereum which is switching over to PoS.

>They're on Ethereum which is switching over to PoS.

It's been switching over to PoS for years. I distinctly remember articles in 2019 about how they'd switch by the end of 2020, articles in 2020 about how they'd switch by the end of 2021, and here we are in 2022.

The point holds until they actually do make the switch.

Re: The Worrisome Rise of NFTs

#73

Post by daenz » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 10:51 PM UTC

0x500x79 wrote: post #60

daenz wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Possession is nine-tenths of the law. If nobody can take it from you, you "own" it, and everything else follows from that. "It" being: your crypto identity bound to some metadata.

Is this comment in support of NFTs or against NFTs? From what I have seen commonly the subject of the NFT is hosted somewhere not on the blockchain (possessed by someone else).

The comment is neutral. If the blockchain is decentralized, it's a lot harder to take the entries from people, but to your point, if it's hosted by a central entity, your ownership of anything is a lot weaker.

Re: The Worrisome Rise of NFTs

#74

Post by dexwiz » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 10:51 PM UTC

Digital goods have proven to be viable goods that people will pay for, trade, and hold. Counter Strike Cosmetics, Fortnite Skins, and iTunes downloads are just a few examples of something that used to be a labeled as a gimmick, but are now big money makers. It's very easy to extends these to NFTs, a seemingly more generic digital good that is not tied to a specific company.

But In Game Cosmetics have something that NFTs still seem to lack, a way to use them. Sure you can use an NFT in a Twitter Profile, but so can I with a simple copy/paste. Is anyone really going to surf a metamask wallet gallery to look at others' NFTs? Probably not. But that cool Counter Strike Knife skin can be used in an actual game that people actually play. Until NFTs can be used in a way that is not easily stolen, they will be relegated to speculation and money laundering vehicles like every other shitcoin out there. In theory games could plug into federated markets where an NFT could be used in multiple games, but where is the incentive to open a walled garden that prints money?

The economic and energy arguments are just bikeshedding the real issue of finding an actual purpose for NFTs. 90% of people probably have never been to a museum to look existing art outside of school field trips, why will that change just because it's digital? Just because digital goods are viable, doesn't make NFTs viable by association.

Re: The Worrisome Rise of NFTs

#75

Post by deergomoo » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 10:52 PM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #21

The worst thing is the constant and malicious lie being perpetuated. You do not own an NFT in any legal or moral sense. The ownership is not recognised in any country, by any court or international body. All you have is an entry in a logical database that says you own it. But unless you have signed a contract with the seller transferring or licensing copyright then it as meaningless as you buying a certificate saying…

Even aside from the baloney idea of ownership they offer, the thing that continues to baffle me about NFTs is that the very nature of them assumes that ownership is inherently valuable.

Buying a painting allows me to hang it on the wall and admire it, where is where I derive the value of owning that painting. Buying a digital videogame allows me play it, even though there is no physical good (and is also a questionable definition of ownership due to DRM).

Buying an NFT allows me to...show off I guess? It entirely separates the ownership from the ability the experience the owned thing, which I find bewildering. To me, 100% of the value of owning something is the ability to experience it. If I can freely experience something, then the concept of "owning" it is worthless. It would be different if it endowed some semblance of actual ownership, e.g. copyright, but that has been functioning perfectly well without blockchains for hundreds of years.

Re: The Worrisome Rise of NFTs

#76

Post by acdha » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 10:52 PM UTC

friendlydog wrote: post #42

Commercial aviation makes up 918 million metric tons of carbon. Bitcoin mining makes up 22 million metric tons. I'm less worried about NFTs than I am air travel.

Commercial aviation is at least useful: every year many millions of people travel for business, school, family, and pleasure needs which would be non-trivial to replace and aviation cargo is a key part of the global supply chain.

If Bitcoin turned off tomorrow, some speculators would be very upset and nobody else would notice because 13 years in it still hasn't found something it can do competitively with alternatives which are significantly cheaper, easier to use, and less polluting.

Re: The Worrisome Rise of NFTs

#77

Post by UncleOxidant » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 10:52 PM UTC

pphysch wrote: post #2

don't worry, "web3" nonsense will be among the first bubbles to pop as US monetary policy tightens over the next couple years

I'd replace the 'as' with 'if' above. I'm not convinced the Fed has the guts to significantly tighten monetary policy at this point. It's not just the NFT market that would crash, it's stocks and real estate as well - followed by a pretty significant recession.

Re: The Worrisome Rise of NFTs

#78

Post by joeman1000 » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 10:52 PM UTC

I’m honestly surprised that hysterics about NFTs have dragged on so long. People must be super bored to give a fuck about this or become upset. People just want to trade proof of ownership, as defined in their own sense. They aren’t really bothering anyone or causing any havoc. Why are people so bloody crazy about it? Just ignore it for fucks sake.

Re: The Worrisome Rise of NFTs

#79

Post by Zamicol » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 10:53 PM UTC

dralley wrote: post #72

Zamicol wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NTF's aren't on Bitcoin. They're on Ethereum which is switching over to PoS.

>They're on Ethereum which is switching over to PoS. It's been switching over to PoS for years. I distinctly remember articles in 2019 about how they'd switch by the end of 2020, articles in 2020 about how they'd switch by the end of 2021, and here we are in 2022. The point holds until they actually do make the switch.

Ethereum is already running PoS for over a year.

Just not all of Ethereum is running PoS. All of Ethereum will switch over and it's currently planned for July.

Re: The Worrisome Rise of NFTs

#80

Post by AlexandrB » Thu, Jan 13, 2022, 10:53 PM UTC

dvt wrote: post #69

threeseed wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No the artist owns it. They have the copyright. So the funny part is that if you buy an NFT not only can I legally copy it but I can approach the artist, buy the copyright and then sue you for copyright infringement.

While this is (in most cases) true, you still own, say, a poster you bought of some artwork. The NFT is a sort of "poster" you own. You still own it, so I don't understand your criticism.

Owning and NFT is more like owning a sign that says there's a poster on the wall in the next room that's yours. For many NFTs the poster may be removed at any time by a third party you have no influence over. All you own is the sign.