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Exploring System76's New Rust Based Desktop Environment

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Re: Exploring System76's New Rust Based Desktop Environment

#131

Post by kangalioo »

qsdf38100 wrote: post #126
brink wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get to meet people who dislike Rust very often. Why don't you like it?

my 2 cents: rust evangelists, the promises of the end of bugs, and how perfect the language is for any use case... that makes my BS detector go off. Everyone has to love Rust nowadays, it sounds like a cult or something. It makes me hate rust without even having tried it, which is dumb and sad.

Yep

Whenever a new tool appears whose existence is justified by being "written in Rust" I cringe a little. I'm a happy Rust user, but I wish people would use the language to make cool stuff, not just spread the language for the sake of the language

Re: Exploring System76's New Rust Based Desktop Environment

#132

Post by schmorptron »

_qbjt wrote: post #111
smoldesu wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a lot of people who despise GNOME 3 on the whole, but I'm willing to defend it for what it is. If you've ever used a touchscreen Linux device, it becomes a whole lot easier to appreciate what they did with the toolkit. GTK apps just... work on a touchscreen. No modifications or fancy-pants libraries required. They also work really well on desktop too, with nice plump interactive elements that make sense for th…

I use GNOME + Wayland on desktop, with a few tweaks and extensions, and I'm totally willing to defend it. It's a lovely computing environment that just feels at home to me and I think it has a tasteful balance of modern and traditional UI patterns.

I'm loving gnome as well, especially since 40,but still can't help but imagine what unity would look like now had it continued development at canonical. One of my main gripes with gnome is the huge amount of wasted space in the top bar that would just be perfect for a global menu like unity had.

Re: Exploring System76's New Rust Based Desktop Environment

#133

Post by yobert »

mariusmg wrote: post #108
pkulak wrote: post #64

I know that open source and Linux in general don't need/want another DE, but selfishly... I really want System76 to succeed. They give me the same kind of feeling I had when Apple was kicking butt in the early 2000s. And I think that for them to become a general-audience company, they need to really own more of their software. They have some great ideas, and they've already plugin'ed Gnome to within and inch of it's…

> I really want System76 to succeed Succeed at what ? Re-implementing Gnome in Rust ?

I think you can assume they meant succeed at creating computers people love to use and selling them.

Re: Exploring System76's New Rust Based Desktop Environment

#134

Post by megumax »

ijidak wrote: post #91

I know we developers love our languages. But I'm always skeptical when underlying language choice is featured prominently as a selling point for any new project. It tells me, this is a technology-first, users-second enthusiast project. And thus, I'll be surprised if it tackles the deepest issues users need solved. That doesn't mean it isn't cool as a proof of concept for a new or popular language. It just makes me qu…

From what I know, system76 didn't shill cosmos as a rust DE, the only reference to Rust being done in some reddit comment. Most PopOS users don't know what Rust is, so it wouldn't make sense to talk about Cosmos as a Rust project.

Now, 90-95% of users use GNOME or KDE, having some competition from a `new` GTK4 DE can't be bad, so I would like to see Cosmos gain attention, and maybe be ported to other distros.

Re: Exploring System76's New Rust Based Desktop Environment

#135

Post by criddell »

dotancohen wrote: post #107
jonpalmisc wrote: post #66

At the risk of sounding too negative/critical, I honestly just don’t like the design language here. Everything seems overly rounded, and more importantly, the screenshots even show very weird/inconsistent alignment and padding in the UI. Why is it that so many Linux GUIs — between apps and desktop environments — suffer from a lack of attention to detail? Once again, it’s early, I’m sure they are aware of some of thes…

> Why is it that so many Linux GUIs — between apps and desktop environments — suffer from a lack of attention to detail? Because nobody who notices files issues. Open source projects do not have the UI teams of Apple and MS. Please, find the bugtracker and file the issues that you've noticed. Thank you!

It's still very early and there's no way that the people making this can't see the alignment and spacing problems. I would assume they will get to it when they can.

The other stuff (like rounding everything) is a deliberate choice.

Re: Exploring System76's New Rust Based Desktop Environment

#136

Post by [deleted] »

diskzero wrote: post #29

Original Nautilus and early GNOME developer here. I am very out of touch with what is current, so excuse some possibly ignorant questions. How is this a Rust-based environment if it is based on GTK? I assume GTK is still essentially the C-based GTK we used with some improvements. Why is this called Rust-based? I’ll do some more research but would like to get some insight from more knowledgeable sources.

[deleted]

Re: Exploring System76's New Rust Based Desktop Environment

#137

Post by mixedCase »

smoldesu wrote: post #81
mixedCase wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't seem like there'd be any good reason to do it. Gtk4 has great low and high level bindings in the form of gtk-rs and relm.

Writing GTK4 apps sucks, at least in Rust. They removed so many idiomatic ways to build apps, and all you're left with is a shitty component system that forces you to write incomprehensible UI layout code instead of leaving it to JSON/XML languages that are much better suited to the process. In any case, gtk-rs's bindings after 9.0.0 are hardly usable, and require me to re-write entire apps just to get them to launch…

Sounds like you want high level bindings, instead of gtk-rs. Have you tried relm4?

> and additions like libadwaita has made GTK unusable for many

Could you expand on that?

Re: Exploring System76's New Rust Based Desktop Environment

#138

Post by choward »

NotVerstappen wrote: post #7

I think I would've tried Pop!_OS by now if not for the name - I know it is totally irrational, but having a ! in there really pisses me off.

Same here. I know naming things is hard but they went out of the way to make it extra terrible. Stick to letters and maybe numbers if you want the version in the name.

Re: Exploring System76's New Rust Based Desktop Environment

#139

Post by laputan_machine »

jonpalmisc wrote: post #66

At the risk of sounding too negative/critical, I honestly just don’t like the design language here. Everything seems overly rounded, and more importantly, the screenshots even show very weird/inconsistent alignment and padding in the UI. Why is it that so many Linux GUIs — between apps and desktop environments — suffer from a lack of attention to detail? Once again, it’s early, I’m sure they are aware of some of thes…

It's open source. You sound like 1) you're knowledgable about what makes "good UX" and 2) you care enough to post about it.

Instead of complaining, why not contribute to making it better?

Re: Exploring System76's New Rust Based Desktop Environment

#140

Post by smoldesu »

_qbjt wrote: post #111
smoldesu wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a lot of people who despise GNOME 3 on the whole, but I'm willing to defend it for what it is. If you've ever used a touchscreen Linux device, it becomes a whole lot easier to appreciate what they did with the toolkit. GTK apps just... work on a touchscreen. No modifications or fancy-pants libraries required. They also work really well on desktop too, with nice plump interactive elements that make sense for th…

I use GNOME + Wayland on desktop, with a few tweaks and extensions, and I'm totally willing to defend it. It's a lovely computing environment that just feels at home to me and I think it has a tasteful balance of modern and traditional UI patterns.

That's fine, I'm not going to take that away from you since I've heard great things about Wayland with the proper hardware for it. As for GNOME, I don't think it's terrible, but it does definitely feel like a regression to me when compared with GNOME 3.3x or GNOME Classic. It's perfectly fine to like it (computer UIs are still opinionated after all), but I feel like their leadership is heading in an undesirable direction for a huge chunk of GNOME loyalists. GNOME 3.38 felt like home to me for a long time, but 40 never clicked. Plus, their "my way or the highway" mentality doesn't work well when combined with their lack of contributors and overall supremacist, absolutist viewpoint on the desktop as a whole.

I do still like certain aspects of GNOME, but I worry for their future under the current leadership.

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