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Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

sloanreview.mit.edu

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Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#261

Post by Xt-6 »

zero41a wrote: post #232
pembrook wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for hilariously illustrating how bubble-y the current moment feels. If you think dramatically increasing compensation is going to continue in the next decade like it has in the last one, I think you might be disappointed. Now that companies are comfortable with remote, HR departments are eventually going to realize that services like Deel exist, and that its not actually that hard to hire employees overseas…

My company has been in the foreign contractor market for a while. I still make a massive US salary. Having been on the hiring team for many of these contractor shops I can tell you that the skill level of contractors in India/Africa/China/Ukraine has another 5-10 years before it even begins to approach the average skill of a seasoned American engineer. For a while my business as an independent contractor was quite li…

In my experience, it is less about skills but more about cultural differences that make them appear less skilled.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#262

Post by Cupertino95014 »

kerneloftruth wrote: post #202

Retail is where the greatest churn is happening -- and it makes perfect sense. Between shutdowns, layoffs, having to enforce mask rules on customers, having to deal with customers, smash and grabs,... retail seems like one of the worst job experiences to have, and with shaky job stability.

Personal data: a friend's daughter was heavily into fashion retailing, even to the point of getting a degree in it. I imagine she was a good salesperson, but I don't know that.

Anyhow, she's now a buyer for some large company, obviously working away from customers.

I'm not discounting your reasons at all, but you left out "buying clothes on the web." Once companies like Zappo's started making it easy to try things and return them if you change your mind, people's reluctance to buy online started evaporating. Now that driving to the mall sucks more than ever, staying home and buying on the Web becomes much more compelling.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#263

Post by hogrider »

altabrams wrote: post #182

I agree a toxic culture is probably driving the great resignation. I don't believe it is lack of money. I do believe and have experienced toxic work relationships and environments. I've had a career as a software engineer -15+ years-, and then shifted to security. Developers reflect their environment and are largely toxic individuals or the object of toxic teams. There is a love/hate relationship with Execs and Tech…

> It's always been a fact in the US that you have to perform the advanced role for at least a year before your title and compensation reflects it.

Yes, but only if you don't manage to find the other job that will bump you in pay and responsibilities instantly. When people start talking about any kind of loyalty to your company I remind them that for getting a promotion first you'd be exploited like this for a year or more.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#264

Post by dagw »

pydry wrote: post #237
zackify wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was able to negotiate a 45k pay raise at my current company. After clearly proving my value for about 2 years. I made it obvious that I would accept a role at my friends company if they couldn’t come up. I explained to them nicely that I would rather stay, but I can’t without a large raise. It can be done, but it would have never happened without me pushing them. No company is going to willingly throw out raises th…

I've seen some friends some do this. The time it took to go through, the size of the raise and the headache involved in convincing everybody (like pulling teeth), still, IME, essentially made it a losing proposition for them compared to just hopping jobs. Still others have thrown out raises without being pushed but they were critical organizational lynchpins getting 10% raises when the market would bump them 50% mini…

essentially made it a losing proposition for them compared to just hopping jobs.

I've done this as well, but I actually liked my current job and wanted to stay. I had a potentially new job lined up which would have paid much better, but it also had many downsides. Primarily a much long commute and a pretty boring industry that didn't interest me. So I was happy to split the difference between my current salary and the new offer and keep doing the job that I liked.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#265

Post by UIUC_06 »

unethical_ban wrote: post #258
UIUC_06 wrote: post #253

Wokeness alert! Did some censor insert this phrase after the rest of the article was written? "the leading elements contributing to toxic cultures include failure to promote diversity, equity, and inclusion" and yet there is no other mention of "diversity" anywhere in the article, and no surveyed person mentioned it.

Well, one of the two cited references have diversity in their article several times. I don't know how to sift through the BLS reference. Is there any indication that sentence needs a citation more than other claims and assertions? Is there something about the idea that an overly homogenous workplace leads to (or attracts) people with less decency and politeness?

Many other people have pointed this out as well.

Generally the article follows the "summary - supporting details" format, which is pretty standard in papers like this. You are being extraordinarily generous to just let them slide on this one

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#266

Post by deepsquirrelnet »

Another swing and miss.

I don't think this is so hard. The pandemic is waking people to the reality of their own mortality.

Suppose you're working a job in a big, highly dysfunctional organization. Most of us who have been there know that these jobs often pay well -- but in trade, you're selling your precious hours to execute a random series of essentially meaningless events (and under pressure to get it done).

Now add a pandemic. You were probably already having a quiet existential crisis, feeling that the insanity of your work environment is no way to let your life pass by. You want your life to mean something, but it isn't fulfilling. Now, people you know are passing away much sooner than expected. Thoughts about the eventuality of your own death are really tipping the scales.

Do you just bury your nose and keep going on? Or find out what else is out there?

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#267

Post by joezydeco »

throwaway9952 wrote: post #121

My company recently had a series of townhalls related to a re-org that included a few different open Q&A sessions. I'd estimate that 70-80% of the questions related to what the company was going to do to address current salaries, particularly vis-a-vis inflation. The questions were largely deflected (which is probably okay given the context) but there is very little urgency to do anything outside of the normal review…

In none of these job changes have I seen any serious plans by the companies to address salaries with a broad brush.

Because it's cheaper to do nothing and grit your teeth and hope that the employees don't revolt.

What's really awful are the companies that proceed to do nothing while bragging that they had an excellent year revenue-wise. It's like they think employees don't actually pay attention to the company press releases and marketing drivel.

If they brag about +20% revenue and your paycheck goes up +1.5%, expect a revolt.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#268

Post by ghaff »

varelse wrote: post #259
quietbritishjim wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An engineer that has been at a largish company for 1 year is worth 20-30% more than the year they were hired because they have specific knowledge of the tech stack. Yet that engineer will likely be offered a 3-5% raise. Although I agree with your overall point, I disagree with this line of reasoning. I think the pay offered to an engineer already takes into account that they will understand the tech stack after six…

As long as you are classified as an at will employee you should give your employer at will loyalty. They don't owe you anything and you don't owe them anything either beyond the responsibilities of your job in exchange for whatever they're paying you. It's up to them to make sticking around your best option. But when I'm on interview panels and someone brings up that the person in question is a job hopper, rather tha…

No reason to downvote you.

However, if someone has generally changed jobs every year or two and I wouldn't hire someone who I knew with certainty would only stay that long, I might think I'm special enough that I can keep them around. But I'd probably be wrong.

Re: Toxic culture is driving the great resignation

#269

Post by specialp »

sys_64738 wrote: post #254
zackify wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was able to negotiate a 45k pay raise at my current company. After clearly proving my value for about 2 years. I made it obvious that I would accept a role at my friends company if they couldn’t come up. I explained to them nicely that I would rather stay, but I can’t without a large raise. It can be done, but it would have never happened without me pushing them. No company is going to willingly throw out raises th…

As long as you're willing to walk if this fails. Also, be aware that your card will be marked and considered somebody who will try this again in the future. I'd expect most companies would reduce the risk of such by making sure what you do has overlap with others. Come the time I expect you'll be managed or re-org'd out the door.

That depends on the situation. Yes, if it was something like "Hey, I know you have this huge project deadline that I am a critical part of, and if you don't pay me a grossly large amount more, I am out" That is hostage taking, and they would not look fondly on you.

But the request of asking for a rate that you are being offered on the open market is not. They have 2 choices there: They can pay you more because you are worth it, or they can wish you the best. If this company had a bunch of employees come in and get take 30% comp less than you and did the same quality of work, do you think they would be "loyal" to you and grossly overpay you? Absolutely not, and they shouldn't. Of course, the company would love to just pay you less, but they realize that your value proposition still exceeds that.

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