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Lab-Made Coronavirus Triggers Debate (2015)

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Re: Lab-Made Coronavirus Triggers Debate (2015)

#51

Post by pvaldes »

pindab0ter wrote: post #47
nikolay wrote: post #44

Why wouldn't it be? We have all the technology. Why make a dirty bomb, when you can make something invisible and release it at a busy airport, and it gets everywhere in a month and only affects the unvaccinated. It could be very profitable. Why politicians rush to convince us that this is not lab-made?! If not the original SARS-CoV-2, then Omicron for sure was lab-made.

If SARA-CoV-2 wasn’t lab-made, Omicron for sure wasn’t either. Why would you release a biological weapon that already does exactly as the currently ongoing pandemic? Also, how are you going to get every non-target vaccinated before the virus shows up? What you’re saying makes absolutely no sense.

> Why would you release a biological weapon that already does exactly as the currently ongoing pandemic?

and with less mortality and milder symptoms.

Re: Lab-Made Coronavirus Triggers Debate (2015)

#52

Post by coolso »

shostack wrote: post #42
coolso wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that the vast majority of mainstream article posts are from a place of opposite bias, I think it's a breath of fresh air to have a different bias at the forefront every once in a while.

This is a false equivalence. The opinion of someone who does not believe in science is not magically equal to those of people who do and are well versed in it when it comes to debating scientific matters.

Your post is a false equivalence, you can believe in science while not parroting a particular establishment/authoritarian narrative of science (which also includes misinformation/ignoring other science) to further a particular narrative with a particular bias.

Re: Lab-Made Coronavirus Triggers Debate (2015)

#53

Post by himinlomax »

zozbot234 wrote: post #12
StanislavPetrov wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Scientists say there is no evidence that the SARS-CoV-2 virus escaped from a lab. Unfortunately there's no evidence it didn't escape from a lab either, but there are many strong indications that it did. https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-coronavirus-lab-leak-v...

> but there are many strong indications that it did. Nope, there really aren't. We're now finding more and more naturally-evolved viruses in cave-dwelling bats that share plenty of features with SARS-CoV2, including the 'weird' features everyone was talking about at the beginning of the pandemic. All it really takes is to go and look for them. Occam's razor says this virus too is just one of many.

An independent inquiry into the lab could settle that quickly.

Re: Lab-Made Coronavirus Triggers Debate (2015)

#54

Post by captainmuon »

rasz wrote: post #15
vicpara wrote: post #13

We'll find out in 90+ years what really happened when the documents get unclassified. This line of thinking wasn't yet authorised by the US government so it must be fake news until approved.

Not likely. Chinese authorities will demolish whole district and build a stadium in its place if they have to to bury the truth and erase bad memories.

Wouldn't you do the same? Unambiguous proof that it was leaked from a lab would be ruinous to the country. Everybody would demand damage compensation. There is absolutely no upside in admitting the truth if it was so. A nation doesn't get any points for doing the "moral" thing.

That's why it is important that this is NOT about establishing historical truth with evidence. If it was human-made, we would realistically never find evidence.

The only thing that counts here is whether it is a plausible scenario or not. I do think there is evidence that this is a plausible scenario, which means that we should act to prevent something like this from happening in the future. Completely regardless whether there was a actual lab leak in the past or not.

Re: Lab-Made Coronavirus Triggers Debate (2015)

#55

Post by em500 »

8note wrote: post #36
xupybd wrote: post #29

This is a very polarizing topic. I'd love to know enough about this field to understand what is going on. I just hope that if this is man made we have learned something to prevent this happening again. How hard would it be for someone to do this on purpose?

i think the biggest learning from covid is that we cant prevent something like this from happening again. not without stopping travel at least

I think the biggest learning from covid is that everybody can choose their own truths and facts, and the internet can provide a limitless amount of support for any theory, hypothesis and conjecture about all of them (even when they're diametrically opposed).

COVID-19 launched us so far into the post-truth world that I'm afraid there's no way back.

Re: Lab-Made Coronavirus Triggers Debate (2015)

#57

Post by emerged »

em500 wrote: post #55
8note wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i think the biggest learning from covid is that we cant prevent something like this from happening again. not without stopping travel at least

I think the biggest learning from covid is that everybody can choose their own truths and facts, and the internet can provide a limitless amount of support for any theory, hypothesis and conjecture about all of them (even when they're diametrically opposed). COVID-19 launched us so far into the post-truth world that I'm afraid there's no way back.

I don’t honestly know if we are more capable of finding the truth now or prior to modern social media and COVID. To me it seems plausible that the truth of things was always abysmally obfuscated by those in control of information distribution. But now we have become very aware of it.

The distinction seems critically important but I don’t know how to figure it out for certain.

Re: Lab-Made Coronavirus Triggers Debate (2015)

#58

Post by black_13 »

StanislavPetrov wrote: post #10
srl wrote: post #6

From the Nature medicine paper: > Editors’ note, [30] March 2020: We are aware that this article is being used as the basis for unverified theories that the novel coronavirus causing COVID-19 was engineered. There is no evidence that this is true; scientists believe that an animal is the most likely source of the coronavirus. And from "The Scientist": > Update (March 11, 2020): On social media and news outlets, a the…

>Scientists say there is no evidence that the SARS-CoV-2 virus escaped from a lab. Unfortunately there's no evidence it didn't escape from a lab either, but there are many strong indications that it did. https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-coronavirus-lab-leak-v...

No post body was provided.

Re: Lab-Made Coronavirus Triggers Debate (2015)

#59

Post by LinuxBender »

nikolay wrote: post #44

Why wouldn't it be? We have all the technology. Why make a dirty bomb, when you can make something invisible and release it at a busy airport, and it gets everywhere in a month and only affects the unvaccinated. It could be very profitable. Why politicians rush to convince us that this is not lab-made?! If not the original SARS-CoV-2, then Omicron for sure was lab-made.

Covid-19 does not match the characteristics that the CCP are stating they wish to develop [1] in regards to targeted biological weapons. The closest I could see to calling covid-19 a targeted weapon would be against people that are already sick have comorbidity. Otherwise at best it disrupts every economy to some degree. It has done a good job of dividing people, creating distrust, angst and anxiety but I would argue that impacted China as well. I could however see a disgruntled lab tech that is angry at the world releasing it. People throw their lives away for far less impact all the time think mass shootings. For a government to use this type of virus as a weapon would require first inoculating all of the people they value against it.

[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=biNxl7tiVSY [video]

Re: Lab-Made Coronavirus Triggers Debate (2015)

#60

Post by hunterb123 »

mrtesthah wrote: post #43
hunterb123 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The results, which are not peer reviewed, have been posted on the preprint server Research Square It's a CCP propaganda piece. I find that "study" pretty fishy, the results would have been easy to verify if true. Same as the CDC study they tried to use against Israel's study for natural immunity.

Once you let ideology infiltrate your reasoning, you’re no longer doing science. Just because you don’t like the implications of a particular piece of research doesn’t mean you get to dismiss it.

That's not what I said. I said it should be easy to peer review but it hasn't been.

That's a very common ask especially among HN, is it not?

https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

From my perspective it looks dubious and the only goal is to shift attention away from the RatG13 sample.

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