Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

cushychicken.github.io

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 927 posts

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#231

Post by jnwatson »

schmookeeg wrote: post #62
Waterluvian wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Why would I skip the recruiter and apply directly unless the recruiter is a non-helpful middleman? I’d love to have a direct contact to negotiate the whole process.

If you have ever met a recruiter who was NOT an unhelpful middleman, I'd love to meet them. My spam folder is filled daily with dozens of body-shop spammers with 50-point scrabble names offering me jobs I don't do in places I won't live for money I haven't made since I quit my newspaper route in college. It's maddening and has been very consistent throughout my career. I've toyed with the idea of finding a for-fee re…

I’ve had almost universally positive experience with recruiters, as a hirer and a recruit.

Not exactly an agent, but you can hire a negotiation consultant at levels.fyi. When you get to the nosebleed levels of comp, it makes sense to have a specialist in your corner.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#233

Post by jnwatson »

giantg2 wrote: post #80
JimDabell wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It varies based on where you are and the specifics of the deal. 15–30% of the first year‘s salary is normal in my experience.

That's fucking disgusting.

As someone that has tried to do it myself, and then hired a couple recruiters, that money is well justified.

Think of all the engineers that hate recruiters. A recruiter has to talk to those folks every day.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#234

Post by voakbasda »

didip wrote: post #200
tjpnz wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>* The highest paying software companies employ LeetCode style interview. That is off-putting to a lot of people even though the money would be super sweet to have. Not only off-putting but out of reach to older engineers with family responsibilities. I would also add that the value proposition for working at a FAANG isn't nearly as competitive if based outside the US.

I agree. I would go as far as saying that LeetCode interview is biased against older engineers with families. Especially young families.

What?! Age discrimination in the software industry??? Say it isn’t so!!! Seriously though, your insight is astonishingly spot on: LeetCode is a perfectly legal means of practicing age/lifestyle discrimination. Yet another innovative Silicon Valley dark pattern. Why is this the first I’m hearing it characterized this way?

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#235

Post by yuliyp »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #33
Waterluvian wrote: post #15

I’ve gotten 7 recruitment emails since Sunday and none of them have come close to sufficiently explaining what the company or job is for me to even consider responding. It’s bizarre how secretive they are. I imagine the recruiters are looking out for their own interests. Recruiters are in the way.

Internal recruiters as they currently are should not exist . That's the hiring managers job, including negotiation of pay. The only roles I've ever accepted were roles that involved a hiring manager reaching out directly to me. There's a reason for this, namely that the only recruiters worth a damn seem to be working in boutique firms and want to take a significant bite out of my future pay. Really, just avoid them i…

Internal recruiters are kind of a necessity, though: hiring managers often don't have skills in sourcing candidates, have calendars filled with other responsibilities, and are generally more expensive per hour than recruiters, for the kinds of work that either could do (screening, communicating with candidates about progress, organizing interviews, etc.).

In most cases that I've seen the internal recruiters have strong relationships with the hiring managers and are incentivized to make sure the hires actually succeed.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#237

Post by judge2020 »

pattusk wrote: post #40
hguant wrote: post #8

There comes a point where the money just isn't a motivating factor anymore, and companies are struggling to figure out how to work in that environment. This bit from the author hits the nail on the head: >Is an extra $10k per year worth learning a new org, a new skillset, a new set of expectations, a new set of coworkers, and a new boss? For many engineers, the answer is: “No.” Yes I could quit and get a ~20k raise b…

I do not disagree with your take, but I think you may only be speaking for a subset of engineers that are already fairly well compensated. The article likewise seems to discard the importance of money in favor of three other more immaterial factors, but I do not think this is representative of the situation of the global job market right now. I also think such a perspective can not fully explain the difficulties that…

None of your points are untrue, but "engineers that are already fairly well compensated" is exactly who OP and the article are referring to:

> Read any publication that cares about business, from the NYT to the Wall Street Journal, and you’ll see a ton of hand wringing about The Quittening, and the accompanying talent shortage.

These publications aren't talking about the workforce in general, they're pseudo-gossip articles about the wealthy top engineers and how well-off they are that they can focus on things other than how much they put into savings each paycheck.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#239

Post by shahbaby »

didip wrote: post #87

The article is concise but missing a lot of real-life examples: * The highest paying software companies employ LeetCode style interview. That is off-putting to a lot of people even though the money would be super sweet to have. * Some wannabe startups also employ LeetCode style interview even though they don't pay anywhere near FAANG/Unicorns. * You know what's worst than LeetCode style interview? LeetCode style inte…

* The people who end up winning your Leetcode interview will have the least amount of trouble leaving your company.

That's why if you're a small start up, trying to hire like Google is the dumbest thing you can do.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#240

Post by askafriend »

reikonomusha wrote: post #175
digianarchist wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The companies that pay 80% of FAANG salaries without the LeetCode whiteboard bullshit are out there.

Can confirm, we do a low-pressure, non-timed, non-puzzle, somewhat realistic, short take-home exercise. But we don't (and can't) add 20+% to your salary in RSUs.

Great Senior Engineers are making 370-500k. Are you paying even 80% of the lowest end of that range?
Post reply on HN