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I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

cushychicken.github.io

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Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#121

Post by ajford »

Waterluvian wrote: post #15

I’ve gotten 7 recruitment emails since Sunday and none of them have come close to sufficiently explaining what the company or job is for me to even consider responding. It’s bizarre how secretive they are. I imagine the recruiters are looking out for their own interests. Recruiters are in the way.

Yup. I mean I've worked with a couple good recruiters that were genuinely helpful, but many are exactly as you said, just in the way.

One recruiter just couldn't understand that the commute for me was major. I had just left a job which had a 1-1.5hr commute each way for me, and I was looking exclusively for something with no more than a 30 minute commute. They kept trying to toss my resume at jobs that had equivalent or longer commutes because "the perks are really nice" or the "pay was really good". Which I took to mean their commission would be really good.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#122

Post by birdyrooster »

anonporridge wrote: post #61
hguant wrote: post #8

There comes a point where the money just isn't a motivating factor anymore, and companies are struggling to figure out how to work in that environment. This bit from the author hits the nail on the head: >Is an extra $10k per year worth learning a new org, a new skillset, a new set of expectations, a new set of coworkers, and a new boss? For many engineers, the answer is: “No.” Yes I could quit and get a ~20k raise b…

Also, I feel like engineers are much more likely to be attracted the FIRE mentality and tend to have the incomes and low spending habits that can get them retired easily by their mid 30s. I'm personally in that boat, and frankly, I'm a little bored but not bored enough to go back to work as an SE full time. If companies offered more part time work and highly flexible work, it might be enough to drag me back in. Even…

I think you have no idea how bad people are with their money even as engineers.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#124

Post by lhorie »

anonporridge wrote: post #61
hguant wrote: post #8

There comes a point where the money just isn't a motivating factor anymore, and companies are struggling to figure out how to work in that environment. This bit from the author hits the nail on the head: >Is an extra $10k per year worth learning a new org, a new skillset, a new set of expectations, a new set of coworkers, and a new boss? For many engineers, the answer is: “No.” Yes I could quit and get a ~20k raise b…

Also, I feel like engineers are much more likely to be attracted the FIRE mentality and tend to have the incomes and low spending habits that can get them retired easily by their mid 30s. I'm personally in that boat, and frankly, I'm a little bored but not bored enough to go back to work as an SE full time. If companies offered more part time work and highly flexible work, it might be enough to drag me back in. Even…

I haven't really seen a whole lot of evidence that there's any stronger correlation between FIRE and engineers compared to other jobs (in fact, many FIRE blogs are from non-eng people).

And conversely, there's plenty of engineers who have kids (hence, very much not FIRE). The vast majority end up going down that route, in fact, at least in my experience.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#125

Post by anonporridge »

birdyrooster wrote: post #122
anonporridge wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, I feel like engineers are much more likely to be attracted the FIRE mentality and tend to have the incomes and low spending habits that can get them retired easily by their mid 30s. I'm personally in that boat, and frankly, I'm a little bored but not bored enough to go back to work as an SE full time. If companies offered more part time work and highly flexible work, it might be enough to drag me back in. Even…

I think you have no idea how bad people are with their money even as engineers.

Even a small bleed of a minority retiring early could have huge effects on corporate hiring ability. Especially for senior engineers.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#126

Post by ndbebofienw »

polymatter wrote: post #109
digianarchist wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny that most of my high school buddies grind their jobs for a paycheck, but as a software developer I'm supposed to "find a company I'm passionate about" so work "has meaning". Hard lessons I learned over the last 24 months: - Titles don't matter. Promotions provide minimal pay increases. It's better to focus on finding another job. - Job difficulty doesn't scale linearly with salary. I'm working roughly the…

What are RSUs?

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/r/restricted-stock-unit.a...

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#127

Post by [deleted] »

polymatter wrote: post #109
digianarchist wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny that most of my high school buddies grind their jobs for a paycheck, but as a software developer I'm supposed to "find a company I'm passionate about" so work "has meaning". Hard lessons I learned over the last 24 months: - Titles don't matter. Promotions provide minimal pay increases. It's better to focus on finding another job. - Job difficulty doesn't scale linearly with salary. I'm working roughly the…

What are RSUs?

[deleted]

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#128

Post by reikonomusha »

polymatter wrote: post #109
digianarchist wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny that most of my high school buddies grind their jobs for a paycheck, but as a software developer I'm supposed to "find a company I'm passionate about" so work "has meaning". Hard lessons I learned over the last 24 months: - Titles don't matter. Promotions provide minimal pay increases. It's better to focus on finding another job. - Job difficulty doesn't scale linearly with salary. I'm working roughly the…

What are RSUs?

Compensation in the form of stock that's essentially as good as cash.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#129

Post by ldjkfkdsjnv »

reikonomusha wrote: post #100
Apocryphon wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flip side, dissatisfaction about engineering work conditions at AMZN (the notorious PIP culture) is a rising deterrent.

I can't say for certain, but it seems there are lots of squeaky wheels about it and lots of chatter on the internet about them, but AMZN/FB/whoever else aren't actually facing any serious repercussions in terms of being able to hire. (I hope I'm wrong, because I do feel there needs to be a moral reckoning about how we technologists—whatever the specific discipline—are contributing to the world, and whether it's truly…

I think amazon is absolutely facing pressure from word getting out about working conditions. They raised their pay band for a middle level engineer 100k.

Re: I think I know why you can't hire engineers right now

#130

Post by mgkimsal »

schmookeeg wrote: post #62
Waterluvian wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Why would I skip the recruiter and apply directly unless the recruiter is a non-helpful middleman? I’d love to have a direct contact to negotiate the whole process.

If you have ever met a recruiter who was NOT an unhelpful middleman, I'd love to meet them. My spam folder is filled daily with dozens of body-shop spammers with 50-point scrabble names offering me jobs I don't do in places I won't live for money I haven't made since I quit my newspaper route in college. It's maddening and has been very consistent throughout my career. I've toyed with the idea of finding a for-fee re…

I've worked with ... 4 in over 25 years that I would work with again. They were helpful middlemen. Only 2 landed me anything, but I know the other 2 put in some effort and things just didn't work out. There's been dozens I've spoken with and wasted far too much time with.

tldr - they do exist, but in very short supply (like many skilled/talented people in most industries)

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