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People behave more sadistically when they’re bored

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Re: People behave more sadistically when they’re bored

#141

Post by danwills »

Apocryphon wrote: post #78
lprubin wrote: post #30

There is an interesting exploration of this in the Altered Carbon universe. If people can become functionally immortal, will they inevitably grow tired of societally acceptable pursuits and move on to sadism?

It's a sci-fi trope of sorts. Also see the Elder from Warhammer 40,000.

Also 'Wowbagger The Infinitely Prolonged' from "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy":

"After a period of total boredom, especially on Sunday afternoons, he decided to insult everyone in the entire universe in alphabetical order." (A quote from the fandom wiki)

Re: People behave more sadistically when they’re bored

#142

Post by Apocryphon »

danwills wrote: post #141
Apocryphon wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a sci-fi trope of sorts. Also see the Elder from Warhammer 40,000.

Also 'Wowbagger The Infinitely Prolonged' from "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy": "After a period of total boredom, especially on Sunday afternoons, he decided to insult everyone in the entire universe in alphabetical order." (A quote from the fandom wiki)

An excellent rare example of this trope being lighthearted!

Re: People behave more sadistically when they’re bored

#143

Post by clove »

nradov wrote: post #137
judahmeek wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That depends on how you define "violent criminal". I've been convicted of an assault charge before, do I qualify?

Well that would depend on the specific facts of your case, which is why we give judges some flexibility in sentencing. There's a huge difference between punching someone in a bar brawl versus pistol whipping a store clerk during an armed robbery.

Both have the potential to kill.

Re: People behave more sadistically when they’re bored

#144

Post by quacked »

namelessoracle wrote: post #96
quacked wrote: post #2

If this is indeed true, it is yet another piece of evidence in the case for prison reform. Prisoners are universally bored, yet in many cases insufficiently protected from one another. Read accounts of any long-time convict's time in prison and you'll hear about excruciating boredom punctuated by acts of outrageous sadism.

Prison is fundamentally flawed from a conceptual basis. Is the idea to reform someone? To make them not repeat their crime? Is it to punish? It is to discourage? It does none of these job as well as it could. Lets take for an example a semi successful drug dealer. Odds are the drug dealer choose that profession because the rewards were higher than the risks. So to discourage that you can 1) make prison so terrible he…

I think you're missing a huge part of the point of prison; prisons aren't designed for the prisoner's benefit, but for society's benefit. Somehow who shoots his wife and lover in bed, or someone who deals drugs, or someone who steals cars isn't someone I want to live near or around.

I'll give you an example to pair with your drug dealer example. A small community store is run by an old couple. Everyone who enters is greeted with pleasure. Shoplifting increases, and the old couple sells to a young person, who is concerned about shoplifting and doesn't greet everyone with pleasure. Then there's an armed robbery. Now there's cameras, bulletproof glass, and the store clerks are openly suspicious of people who come into the store. Now society is worse to live in, and the only people who caused that are the ones who did the crimes.

Crime causes poverty of spirit and weakens social bonds; prison is a place to keep prisoners so they don't disintegrate society.

Re: People behave more sadistically when they’re bored

#145

Post by clove »

inglor_cz wrote: post #109
dwohnitmok wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Spanking? Some countries essentially do this (e.g. caning in Singapore).

Don't you, at least in Singapore, get caning in addition to a prison sentence?

Has there ever been any studies on caning + prison and whether it has any efficacy in reducing recidivism in Singapore vs. just prison?

Re: People behave more sadistically when they’re bored

#146

Post by MathCodeLove »

clove wrote: post #143
nradov wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well that would depend on the specific facts of your case, which is why we give judges some flexibility in sentencing. There's a huge difference between punching someone in a bar brawl versus pistol whipping a store clerk during an armed robbery.

Both have the potential to kill.

I think the point they're making is obvious. Being a pedant doesn't further discussion.

Re: People behave more sadistically when they’re bored

#147

Post by namelessoracle »

the_jeremy wrote: post #134
namelessoracle wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prison is fundamentally flawed from a conceptual basis. Is the idea to reform someone? To make them not repeat their crime? Is it to punish? It is to discourage? It does none of these job as well as it could. Lets take for an example a semi successful drug dealer. Odds are the drug dealer choose that profession because the rewards were higher than the risks. So to discourage that you can 1) make prison so terrible he…

Making prison worse is unlikely to help[0] in that harsher sentences already don't help reduce crime. [0]: https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/nij/247350.pdf

The point of punishment is not to reduce crime. Revenge is the point. Im not saying you should make prisons harsher. Im saying if you want a societal revenge site. Just admit and optimize for that. Putting that right next to "reform this person" just hurts both endeavors.

Some people could really use removal from their environment and a fresh start where they get discipline and learn a way to be successful.(prison doesnt do this, and a one size fits all discipline approach causes problems too) Other people are just dangers to themselves and others. Mixing the two just damns the people who could be saved.

Re: People behave more sadistically when they’re bored

#148

Post by namelessoracle »

quacked wrote: post #144
namelessoracle wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prison is fundamentally flawed from a conceptual basis. Is the idea to reform someone? To make them not repeat their crime? Is it to punish? It is to discourage? It does none of these job as well as it could. Lets take for an example a semi successful drug dealer. Odds are the drug dealer choose that profession because the rewards were higher than the risks. So to discourage that you can 1) make prison so terrible he…

I think you're missing a huge part of the point of prison; prisons aren't designed for the prisoner's benefit, but for society's benefit. Somehow who shoots his wife and lover in bed, or someone who deals drugs, or someone who steals cars isn't someone I want to live near or around. I'll give you an example to pair with your drug dealer example. A small community store is run by an old couple. Everyone who enters is…

Am i? Punishing someone for a societys benefit sounds like detterence to me. Sounds like what you think should be done against that person is removal from society. The classic way (death penalty) is not in fashion in the western world.

So it sounds like they should be put in a facility optimized towards containment and letting them live out their days in some semblance of peace. (Not wanting them in peace sounds alot like you want them punished) Not in a facility where they take a slot to learn a trade from someone else and get to influence people who reform is deemed appropriate.

Re: People behave more sadistically when they’re bored

#149

Post by smegger001 »

kgran wrote: post #130
mensetmanusman wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A family member was in prison for petty theft and breaking parole for over 25 years. When they got out, they didn’t even know how to drive because it started from teenage years (abusive father). I was shocked that the state didn’t spend an ounce of energy to at least teach these people basic skills. Now they are forced to live in cities where they are more likely to interact with bad influences. Anyway, I wonder if d…

I know a little about car-dependency in the US, but sheesh... I am always astounded how such things like driving being a basic skill or having a car being a necessity are unquestionable parts of living and culture there.

it comes form having sparse sidewalks, no bikelanes and low desity so everything is far apart.

Re: People behave more sadistically when they’re bored

#150

Post by quacked »

namelessoracle wrote: post #148
quacked wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're missing a huge part of the point of prison; prisons aren't designed for the prisoner's benefit, but for society's benefit. Somehow who shoots his wife and lover in bed, or someone who deals drugs, or someone who steals cars isn't someone I want to live near or around. I'll give you an example to pair with your drug dealer example. A small community store is run by an old couple. Everyone who enters is…

Am i? Punishing someone for a societys benefit sounds like detterence to me. Sounds like what you think should be done against that person is removal from society. The classic way (death penalty) is not in fashion in the western world. So it sounds like they should be put in a facility optimized towards containment and letting them live out their days in some semblance of peace. (Not wanting them in peace sounds alot…

Hmm, perhaps not. We may be agreeing with each other. I have no desire to punish people for their crimes, only to remove them from society.

I thought your point was that the concept of prison as "a place where you are removed from society" is fundamentally flawed, and your rationale was that removal does not serve the person removed. It seems that your point is actually that the modern concept of prison as "a place where you go to be punished" is flawed, which I agree with. Prisoners should simply be outside society, not in pain or fear. If they can manage to live peacefully that ought to be allowed; if they cannot, they ought to be restricted further.

I think there are only two real "punishments", which are death and exile. Corporal punishment is just partially-applied death, and prison is just partially-applied exile. All other punishments I'm aware of are just shades of either death or exile; even monetary fines are "a reduction of your ability to participate in society".

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