Young people from Brazil's favelas set out to conquer digital world

Post by vanusa » Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 11:08 PM UTC

anonporridge wrote: post #81

vanusa wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The interesting thing is that this is literally how all governments originally emerged. No - there are also revolutions and secessionist movements. Which already in their formation can be better thought of as mini-governments than "gangs" per se. The basic problem with the idea of saying "it all started from gang rule" is that it brings to mind an image of criminal networks that just happened to fall into government-…

Our history books tend to glorify ancient gangs and call them things like "nobles" and "royalty". But if you look beneath the veneer, they were gangs very much like the street gangs and crime organizations we have now. History is written by the victors.

Post by vanusa » Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 11:22 PM UTC

anonporridge wrote: post #83

vanusa wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually it's written by anthropologists. If you look at how our species came to self-organize, there has always been a strong component of innate, voluntary cooperation (and of course violent subjugation as well). It's a mixed bag for sure, but I just think your characterization is way too oversimplified -- and it probably wouldn't get too far you tried to pass it by people who have devoted their lives to studying t…

Who pays the anthropologists? And what cultural biases do they infuse in their work? Modern gangs also sometimes organize via voluntary cooperation. Their ability to commit violence and control their territory is merely the foundation of their legitimacy in any non violent agreement. Same foundation as all "official" governments.

Post by phront » Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 11:25 PM UTC

anonporridge wrote: post #66

smoe wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't know much about Rio, but what I have seen and heard elsewhere in Latin America over the years. Often times organized crimes substitutes an absent government and enforce their own set of law and order in the community. They can't afford to just rob the people blind as sometimes portrayed in media. They rely on a somewhat sybmiotic relationship with the "citizens" to act as messengers, human surveillance cameras,…

The interesting thing is that this is literally how all governments originally emerged. The strongest local gang establishes a monopoly on violence in their territory. They then extract tribute (taxes) from the local population in various ways. If they get too greedy and extract too much, then eventually the plebs have little enough to lose to break their established order and fight the establishment gang. The most c…

Post by StefanWestfal » Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 11:35 PM UTC

kilroy123 wrote: post #52

TameAntelope wrote: post #6

How the hell do they run these operations or have this amount of gear safely in a favela? When I did a full-on tourist experience of Rio, the guides were adamant that we not even go near any favela, as we'd immediately be robbed or worse. My understanding was that the crime in those areas was so astronomically high that nothing even resembling IT infrastructure could exist, as it would immediately be confiscated by t…

My ex girlfriend lived in Brazil for ~10 years and her job was running tours to the favelas. She told me there were fairly strict rules about this sort of thing. The gangs there cared about drugs and making money. As long as you weren't there interfering with them making money, they didn't really care about you as a tourist. They might get a phone or pocket change from you but why waste time and money on just that? B…

Post by nopenopenopeno » Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 11:49 PM UTC

thescriptkiddie wrote: post #39

gdcbe wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lived at the edge of 2 favellas for a couple of months as part of my short life in Brazil. I can tell you, while their houses are small and simple made they often have high tech in their houses. Partly due to the fact that their government had programs allowing them to buy it cheaply. From my limited experience the problem wasn’t so much that tech wasn’t or couldn’t be available but that a lot of them couldn’t even…

> these gangs peace is more interesting and profitable than a lot of crime and chaos I think it is enlightening to look at these sort of situations through the lens of feudalism. Criminal gangs are not sociopathic comic book villains interested in violence for the fun of it, they are more like landlords, and are in it for money, security, and a sense of community. Medieval kings, the Italian/American/Japanese mafias,…