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Great AA Alkaline Battery Test (2016)

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Re: Great AA Alkaline Battery Test (2016)

#111

Post by jasode »

zh3 wrote: post #2

Let me leap in here to ding Duracell. They used to be my goto battery, but over the past few years (there was a hedge fund takeover, which IME rarely results in improvements to long-standing quality products) they've turned into liabilities - specifically, they are extremely prone to leaking once even a little bit discharged. To this day I open old kit and there can be duracells in there with "use by 2010" or even ea…

I came across this recent youtube comment[1] on why older batteries didn't leak. I don't know if it's correct but sharing it anyway:

>ceptimus 2 weeks ago (edited) >> Old alkaline batteries contained mercury, which made them resistant to leaking. The mercury was there to absorb the hydrogen gas, which builds internal pressure when the battery is used, causing them to leak. Newer alkaline batteries don't have mercury, because it's harmful to the environment when disposed. Unfortunately, the mercury free batteries leak much sooner - many of them long before their 'use by' date, even if you've never used them. Now you've replaced the batteries, you should check the camera more frequently. The modern rechargeable Ni-mh batteries, with a low self-discharge rate, are a good alternative: less likely to leak; but they're only nominally 1.2 Volts per cell instead of 1.5 volts, so some equipment won't work with them.

EDIT... maybe there's more to it than just mercury because some low-effort googling[2] found that law prohibiting it in batteries was 1996 (~25 years ago). That doesn't match the timeline in the video because Alec says his old batteries (that didn't leak) were "use-by-date-2016". So maybe something else was different about the formulation in his Kirkland Signature batteries circa ~2008.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5s6xerRqVY&lc=UgztQzUKV5BJQ...

[2] https://www.google.com/search?q=mercury+removed+from+alkalin...

Re: Great AA Alkaline Battery Test (2016)

#112

Post by lmilcin »

dragontamer wrote: post #56
lmilcin wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I design some electronics in my spare time. As a user, I strongly prefer to have a choice of using a rechargeable battery. It somehow does not feel right to throw out a toxic battery when I could have another type potentially hundreds of times over many years. It helps that there is a proliferation of quite powerful, low voltage, low power chips. Some of the devices I design have USB interface which gives another opt…

I'd assume that 3-cells could lead to a simple trickle-charge circuit? 3*1.35 == 4.05V, which is pretty close to the 5V power that you take from the USB, seems like there's enough room to get a regulator to turn 5V into a simple charging circuit. There'd also be enough output to probably run 3.3V circuits with a simple regulator. 4*1.35 == 5.4V, which is beyond the capacity for 5V to charge (unless you got a boost-co…

Newer STM32 lines go as far down as 1.7V. Or they would if I was able to find other chips (notably Bluetooth) that would suit me and could pull the same trick. As it stands, the circuit can work down to ~1.85V which is still quite comfortable with two cells.

I admit there is no particular reason to use 2 cells where I could use 3 (they would still fit comfortably inside keyboard enclosure). The only reason is vanity -- I hope it will look sexier to other EEs:)

I dislike built in cells. I like ability to just change batteries rather than have to plug in to charge. Nothing worse than a peripheral like headphones that you have to stop using just because charge ran out. Why do I need to finish my couch session just because my keyboard can't take a simple AA battery or two? Seems like completely unnecessary nuisance.

Also, if you are talking about cell voltage, you need to remember they loose voltage very quickly upon discharging and most of the discharging happens at much lower than max voltage. For NiMh you really want to make sure that your circuit works with at least 1.2V per cell (as an absolute minimum, in perfect conditions of room temperature and very low discharge). Any higher than that and you aren't actually discharging the cells properly and are not using their capacity.

If your circuit works in short bursts of high current or can be used outdoors, be prepared that the voltage can drop very quickly especially when the cell is older (has been through a lot of cycles).

Re: Great AA Alkaline Battery Test (2016)

#113

Post by djrogers »

dragontamer wrote: post #9

I think the main issue with AA Alkaline is the proliferation of cheap low-self-discharge NiMH cells (aka: Eneloop, but also Energizer and other brands have good LSD NiMH available). A huge number of appliances seem to be designed for the 1.35V NiMH chemistry now. Perhaps a random TV-remote still prefers Alkaline but most seem to work fine with NiMH. ----- Buying a pack of 20 NiMH cells and rotating your collection be…

That works well until you have kids running around... You going to put rechargeable cells in that Elena of Avalor wand your 4 year old chases the dog with? And her talking unicorn? How about all the light sabers?

In my experience, most of those types of toys don't go through batteries fast enough to justify a NiMH - they'd be in there for years. Invariably one of the kids will wind up mixing NiMH/LiIon/Alkaline in a toy, then the rechargeable winds up in the recycling bin a year later.

Fast forward 3 years, and your "infinite" AAs are all gone, lost, or in near-permanent use somewhere you can never identify, and you've wasted all that money.

In a few years when the kids move out and, and the number of battery powered gizmos is down to a manageable number, I'll try it again - until then, Amazon Basics AAA/AA are my friend.

Re: Great AA Alkaline Battery Test (2016)

#114

Post by gerdesj »

gunapologist99 wrote: post #66
zh3 wrote: post #2

Let me leap in here to ding Duracell. They used to be my goto battery, but over the past few years (there was a hedge fund takeover, which IME rarely results in improvements to long-standing quality products) they've turned into liabilities - specifically, they are extremely prone to leaking once even a little bit discharged. To this day I open old kit and there can be duracells in there with "use by 2010" or even ea…

Curious if you're having these leaks in Duracells you bought from a big box retail store, or shipped from Amazon.

You mean ... gasp ... they might be fakes.

The EU has a quality mark "CE" - Conformitè Europëenne. Sometime the font is a bit wonky and it is alleged that CE in that case stands for China Export instead. I imagine that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CE_marking#%22China_Export%22 is policed quite carefully.

Re: Great AA Alkaline Battery Test (2016)

#115

Post by walrus01 »

something that didn't exist in 2016 and does now, are AA batteries that are composed of an internal lithium ion cell, a DC-DC converter for 1.5VDC output to the end terminals, and internal 5V-USB to li-ion charge controller circuitry.

With a USB port literally built into the body of the battery. They're more expensive, but can pay for themselves...

https://www.amazon.com/AA-Batteries-ANVOW-Rechargeable-Capac...

there are lots of other models if you search for "AA battery lithium ion USB"

I would recommend these over anything that is NiMH based (memory effect) or needs a proprietary charger.

Re: Great AA Alkaline Battery Test (2016)

#116

Post by brnt »

gunapologist99 wrote: post #66
zh3 wrote: post #2

Let me leap in here to ding Duracell. They used to be my goto battery, but over the past few years (there was a hedge fund takeover, which IME rarely results in improvements to long-standing quality products) they've turned into liabilities - specifically, they are extremely prone to leaking once even a little bit discharged. To this day I open old kit and there can be duracells in there with "use by 2010" or even ea…

Curious if you're having these leaks in Duracells you bought from a big box retail store, or shipped from Amazon.

I get Duracell Industrials through my works office supplier, they also leak frequently.

Re: Great AA Alkaline Battery Test (2016)

#117

Post by walrus01 »

rabf wrote: post #63
dragontamer wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the new Lithium rechargeable ones Lithium isn't rechargable. (Lithium AA cells are very long-life but very expensive. One-time use. Lithium-ion are rechargable, but are 3.7 volts and completely violate the AA spec) NiMH is the chemistry for rechargable AA / AAA cells, since its 1.35V and "close enough" to the old 1.5V standard alkaline. > Older rechargeable AA and AAA batteries were terribly short lived and so most…

You can get lithium ion rechargable AA batteries these days. They have a built in regulator to drop the voltage to 1.5V. Some of them even have micro usb ports on the side for charging.

there are even USB-C ones now for people who have less microUSB 5VDC charge cables hanging around their home...

Re: Great AA Alkaline Battery Test (2016)

#118

Post by TrainedMonkey »

adenner wrote: post #110
TrainedMonkey wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdata, I recently had to replace batteries in several smoke alarms. 3 were Duracells and 2 were Rayovacs. All Duracells were from 2016/2017, i.e. assuming they were installed right away they lasted around 5 years. Rayovacs were from 2010 and 2011, despite both brands being rated for 5 years. It is possible that old Rayovacs were installed around same time as new Duracells and both lasted around same time, still ma…

Just as a bit of feedback, for safety equipment like smoke and CO detectors, standard guidance is to replace the battery at least once a year. (Unless you have an integrated 10 year battery that will last the life of the detector) If you live in an area that follows Daylight Savings time, doing it then is best so that you remember. Otherwise doing it during the Operation Edith drill for Fire Prevention Week is the ne…

Does this guidance apply to both battery backup and battery only situations?

Re: Great AA Alkaline Battery Test (2016)

#119

Post by surge »

zh3 wrote: post #2

Let me leap in here to ding Duracell. They used to be my goto battery, but over the past few years (there was a hedge fund takeover, which IME rarely results in improvements to long-standing quality products) they've turned into liabilities - specifically, they are extremely prone to leaking once even a little bit discharged. To this day I open old kit and there can be duracells in there with "use by 2010" or even ea…

Someone did a test and found the Costco Kirkland batteries were not only as good as Duracell, but cheaper and lasted longer.

Re: Great AA Alkaline Battery Test (2016)

#120

Post by Spooky23 »

zh3 wrote: post #2

Let me leap in here to ding Duracell. They used to be my goto battery, but over the past few years (there was a hedge fund takeover, which IME rarely results in improvements to long-standing quality products) they've turned into liabilities - specifically, they are extremely prone to leaking once even a little bit discharged. To this day I open old kit and there can be duracells in there with "use by 2010" or even ea…

They are expensive, but if you need a primary battery, the non-rechargeable lithium batteries are great.

My clock radio backup battery has probably been in there for >15 years.

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