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People behave more sadistically when they’re bored

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131–140 of 165 posts

Re: People behave more sadistically when they’re bored

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do non-christians really reject this type of wisdom just because it's biblical and only now accept it because we have scientific proof of it?

If I'm being completely honest, once I discovered all of the manipulations and lies Christianity perpetrates on its people, everything else I hear about the religion I take with a heaping pile of salt, including wisdom I might, in a vacuum, accept. My thought is usually something like, "Yes, and how did this 'wisdom' help earlier Christian leaders control their followers?"

Sorry you had such a bad time with religion. Our experiences really do affect how we perceive the world. I also had a bad experience with it growing up, rejected it, became an atheist, then really experienced God later on and it changed me. There really is beauty in the Bible and the life of Christ. Real hope, real redemption for broken humanity. You have to separate Christianity from the people that abuse it for control, manipulation, and power. Those things are not principles that the Bible teaches, in fact Jesus condemns those actions explicitly.

Re: People behave more sadistically when they’re bored

#132
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the key difference is I'm focusing on allowing people to live with others they can synergize well with. I oppose the focus on punishing (torturing) criminals. I do not believe we should permanently exile all violent criminals into wilderness. I believe they should live in a safe and healthy environment where they can thrive. We shouldn't let someone who's likely to murder people out on the streets with no hel…

Maintaining a sufficient level of physical security to reliably confine violent criminals while also giving them a safe and healthy environment where they can thrive would be extremely expensive. It sounds great in theory, but most citizens wouldn't be willing to pay more taxes for it. (And yes I'm aware we could find the necessary funds by slashing military spending but realistically that's not going to happen.)

That depends on how you define "violent criminal".

I've been convicted of an assault charge before, do I qualify?

Re: People behave more sadistically when they’re bored

#133
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd be happy if we'd just get over this vindictive need to deprive prisoners of basic pleasures. I won't argue that there aren't some people who have such a vindictive need, but in most cases where I've had conversations with folks about things like this, it's more that they oppose someone having a similar (or maybe "better") quality of life to what they have, without working to pay for it, and rather being paid fo…

Is there a word that means the opposite of schadenfreude? Displeasure at the advancement of others?

In this case, "spite". As in, "I don't want you to have anything nice, even if it cost me less and led to better outcomes for you and society at large (and thus indirectly me)". As in, "bite off your nose to spite your face".

Re: People behave more sadistically when they’re bored

#134
post #2

If this is indeed true, it is yet another piece of evidence in the case for prison reform. Prisoners are universally bored, yet in many cases insufficiently protected from one another. Read accounts of any long-time convict's time in prison and you'll hear about excruciating boredom punctuated by acts of outrageous sadism.

Prison is fundamentally flawed from a conceptual basis. Is the idea to reform someone? To make them not repeat their crime? Is it to punish? It is to discourage? It does none of these job as well as it could. Lets take for an example a semi successful drug dealer. Odds are the drug dealer choose that profession because the rewards were higher than the risks. So to discourage that you can 1) make prison so terrible he…

Making prison worse is unlikely to help[0] in that harsher sentences already don't help reduce crime.

[0]: https://www.ojp.gov/pdffiles1/nij/247350.pdf

Re: People behave more sadistically when they’re bored

#135
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd be happy if we'd just get over this vindictive need to deprive prisoners of basic pleasures. I won't argue that there aren't some people who have such a vindictive need, but in most cases where I've had conversations with folks about things like this, it's more that they oppose someone having a similar (or maybe "better") quality of life to what they have, without working to pay for it, and rather being paid fo…

Okay, maybe. Rather than people wanting the worst possible thing for prisoners because of the perceived harm those prisoners have caused them (vindictiveness), they want the worst possible thing for prisoners because HOW DARE someone else have something nicer than them that they didn't "earn". That's the same attitude that would begrudge a homeless person a donated name brand hoodie, because (you) had to pay $X for i…

> It very much is "Damn the consequences, and how much it costs, I want them to have the worst possible experience".

To be clear, I am not agreeing with the position I am describing. Rather, I am trying to very specifically say that it is NOT "very much... I want them to have the worst possible experience."

If anything, I think the attitude I described may be more reflective of the overall poor quality of life (relative to the possibilities) that the majority of Americans enjoy in their day-to-day lives due to the widening wealthy inequality. For many people, who can't even afford access to entertainment like "gaming consoles", providing such to prisoners out of the taxpayer's till makes them question why their life is so hard and what they're working for if they could just become anti-social and get enjoyment beyond "three hots and a cot". Granted, perhaps it would be useful if more people questioned their lot in life and how we got here, but the result of that questioning for many is not high-minded ideals and calls for more equality.

You seem to be reiterating the idea of vindictiveness in your conclusion, while acknowledging that something akin to spite might be more causative earlier on in your response. I am not sure I'd classify exactly what I'm describing as either spite or vindictiveness, but it's certainly a dark feeling. What I'm observing is that many people are uncomfortable with the idea of prisoners having an enjoyable enough quality of life such that their own non-prison life seems worse by comparison, it creates feelings of futility towards life and engenders a certain type of nihilism. I think considering that people are merely vindictive or spiteful is an oversimplification that does not fully encompass the complexity of the human experience. You should also consider that many people who are in the bottom half of American society /know/ someone who's been in prison, or may have been in prison themselves, so it is not as if the realities of the prison experience have escaped these people. As you rightly point out, the US has the highest incarceration and recidivism rates in the world, and it's predominantly people who are "lower class" ending up there, mostly from a demographic standpoint the same folks who hold the viewpoint I'm trying to point out.

Re: People behave more sadistically when they’re bored

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Penal colonies and other forms of exile are cruel and unusual. It's hard to conceive because this form of punishment has been disused in the west for nearly as long as drawing and quartering, but historical use of exile gives a sense for how extreme permanent exile is as a punishment. Even in the age of drawing and quartering, penal colonies were used primarily as an alternative to capital punishment. In the age of g…

I think the key difference is I'm focusing on allowing people to live with others they can synergize well with. I oppose the focus on punishing (torturing) criminals. I do not believe we should permanently exile all violent criminals into wilderness. I believe they should live in a safe and healthy environment where they can thrive. We shouldn't let someone who's likely to murder people out on the streets with no hel…

You make various odd connections there that are just not true. Violent criminals do not thrive together with other violent criminals. By definition those are people who have trouble fitting in a society. There's a high chance of various bad things happening and so you need rules and guards and so on. It would never be a free society when talking about bad criminals and not small offenders.

Re: People behave more sadistically when they’re bored

#137
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maintaining a sufficient level of physical security to reliably confine violent criminals while also giving them a safe and healthy environment where they can thrive would be extremely expensive. It sounds great in theory, but most citizens wouldn't be willing to pay more taxes for it. (And yes I'm aware we could find the necessary funds by slashing military spending but realistically that's not going to happen.)

That depends on how you define "violent criminal". I've been convicted of an assault charge before, do I qualify?

Well that would depend on the specific facts of your case, which is why we give judges some flexibility in sentencing. There's a huge difference between punching someone in a bar brawl versus pistol whipping a store clerk during an armed robbery.

Re: People behave more sadistically when they’re bored

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I'm being completely honest, once I discovered all of the manipulations and lies Christianity perpetrates on its people, everything else I hear about the religion I take with a heaping pile of salt, including wisdom I might, in a vacuum, accept. My thought is usually something like, "Yes, and how did this 'wisdom' help earlier Christian leaders control their followers?"

Sorry you had such a bad time with religion. Our experiences really do affect how we perceive the world. I also had a bad experience with it growing up, rejected it, became an atheist, then really experienced God later on and it changed me. There really is beauty in the Bible and the life of Christ. Real hope, real redemption for broken humanity. You have to separate Christianity from the people that abuse it for con…

I did not have a bad experience with religion growing up (I had little/no experience with religion growing up), but the manipulation I'm referencing is available for anyone to read about, as the history of the Catholic church is not private information.

The beauty in Christianity is co-opted and stolen from the beauty of the universe in an effort to control others. Very little about Christianity is uniquely beautiful, in my opinion.

Re: People behave more sadistically when they’re bored

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe we should focus on separating criminals from non-criminals instead of punishing and torturing them. Give them an environment where they can thrive without being harmful to themselves and others. Let them re-join the society ONLY when they pose acceptable risk. This means violent criminals may never get to re-join the society, but that's okay given that they are still given a humane environment where they ca…

I'm classified as a "violent criminal" by the state by way of having a violent felony. Not trying to be inflammatory, but this sounds like awful idea, mostly psychological and societal at large. In my experience, many, many people have this "us vs. them" attitude towards criminals, as in "I would never commit a crime so therefore they are not like us ." The reality is, countless people are either innocent or one-time…

Thanks for sharing. Especially the “us vs. them”-view.

I recently realised this while watching Gordon Ramsay’s Bad Boy Bakery. The sentiment (I assume often portrayed intentionally by the show) about prisoners really both shocked and confused me. It’s as if people want prisoners to do absolutely nothing, somehow still act according to their rules and then somehow flourish in society after release.

imo, prison systems should be more focused on learning crafts and education in general. I feel like the vast majority are in for minor crimes and somehow their life should be ruined for it. Doesn’t seem just.

There’s definitely some people who pose a permanent danger to society, and some prison sentences will seem just. But there’s no reason they should be bored out of their minds

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