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People behave more sadistically when they’re bored

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Re: People behave more sadistically when they’re bored

#81

Post by scythe »

quacked wrote: post #2

If this is indeed true, it is yet another piece of evidence in the case for prison reform. Prisoners are universally bored, yet in many cases insufficiently protected from one another. Read accounts of any long-time convict's time in prison and you'll hear about excruciating boredom punctuated by acts of outrageous sadism.

I mean the "obvious" alternative that satisfies those predicates is house arrest: separated from society, not in danger from other prisoners.

So I'd ask: What prevents us from using house arrest as an alternative to imprisonment more often? How can those problems be addressed? Can we "build a better house arrest" -- maybe even from within the private sector?

Re: People behave more sadistically when they’re bored

#82

Post by julianlam »

good8675309 wrote: post #74
ppeetteerr wrote: post #7

Scientific proof that "The devil makes work for idle hands to do" is accurate Edit: not in a religious sort-of-way

Do non-christians really reject this type of wisdom just because it's biblical and only now accept it because we have scientific proof of it?

No?

The bible contains a lot of good advice packaged in the form of religious parables. They're not unique to religious people.

E.g. "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is the same as "what goes around comes around"

Re: People behave more sadistically when they’re bored

#83

Post by lapsedacademic »

Borrible wrote: post #56

I'm burned by social sciences so I'll wait for a replication study. But as an aside, grinding maggots is not exactly my idea of sadism. I prefer when they feel physical pain. Or at least think they look like they do. Although, mental atrocities are actually my specialty. They must excite my empathy, I'm more the sensitive type. The icing on the cake is, when they like it. Confiscating one of their most important hold…

Experience with maggots is an important control variable, especially given the tiny sample size (13 people ground maggots).

I suspect that people who have experience dealing with a maggot infestation -- or any infestation -- will have a very different relationship to grinding maggots.

I wouldn't think twice about grinding maggots, but to do so voluntarily I'd have to have nothing better to do because it's not pleasant work.

I don't think grinding maggots is particularly violent. This is probably because I had to deal with a very serious and persistent maggot infestation. There's really no way to deal with a maggot infestation except to kill them en masse using methods that appear sadistic (e.g., boiling water or chemical treatment).

An alternative title might be "Dealing with a maggot infestation is necessary but unpleasant work... you have to be pretty bored before you decide to do this work voluntarily."

Re: People behave more sadistically when they’re bored

#84

Post by KerrAvon »

tristor wrote: post #38
lostcolony wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be happy if we'd just get over this vindictive need to deprive prisoners of basic pleasures. I've seen outrage over the idea that prisoners have access to TVs, or gaming consoles, or similar, stories of wardens confiscating books and pen and paper and such. I understand there are some other concerns that may warrant keeping usage of some of those under surveillance or similar (keep a pencil from being used as a s…

> I'd be happy if we'd just get over this vindictive need to deprive prisoners of basic pleasures. I won't argue that there aren't some people who have such a vindictive need, but in most cases where I've had conversations with folks about things like this, it's more that they oppose someone having a similar (or maybe "better") quality of life to what they have, without working to pay for it, and rather being paid fo…

>'s more that they oppose someone having a similar (or maybe "better") quality of life to what they have, without working to pay for it, and rather being paid for by them

This is very akin to vindictiveness, though. It's one of the most corrosive forces in American political life. *Someone* might get something they don't *deserve*. Bonus points if that someone is the "other" (Jewish, brown skin, Mexican, whatever). The right wing used this as a wedge issue in the 80's ("welfare queens") to make life miserable for the poor and it's the driving force behind a lot of anti-immigration rhetoric here and abroad.

Re: People behave more sadistically when they’re bored

#85

Post by rozap »

throwawayboise wrote: post #58
ppeetteerr wrote: post #7

Scientific proof that "The devil makes work for idle hands to do" is accurate Edit: not in a religious sort-of-way

Yes, these old sayings are often grounded in reality, even if they are part of a larger philosophy based on faith.

And a lot of practices encoded into faith just grew out of reality. Like not eating pork because at the time, you'd get nasty things like trichinosis.

But there's a lot of bullshit, too.

Re: People behave more sadistically when they’re bored

#87

Post by ppeetteerr »

good8675309 wrote: post #74
ppeetteerr wrote: post #7

Scientific proof that "The devil makes work for idle hands to do" is accurate Edit: not in a religious sort-of-way

Do non-christians really reject this type of wisdom just because it's biblical and only now accept it because we have scientific proof of it?

I suspect religion adopted a lot of sound advice and made it religious

Re: People behave more sadistically when they’re bored

#88

Post by WalterBright »

elliekelly wrote: post #60
tristor wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'd be happy if we'd just get over this vindictive need to deprive prisoners of basic pleasures. I won't argue that there aren't some people who have such a vindictive need, but in most cases where I've had conversations with folks about things like this, it's more that they oppose someone having a similar (or maybe "better") quality of life to what they have, without working to pay for it, and rather being paid fo…

Is there a word that means the opposite of schadenfreude? Displeasure at the advancement of others?

envy

Re: People behave more sadistically when they’re bored

#89

Post by WalterBright »

throwawayboise wrote: post #57
lostcolony wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be happy if we'd just get over this vindictive need to deprive prisoners of basic pleasures. I've seen outrage over the idea that prisoners have access to TVs, or gaming consoles, or similar, stories of wardens confiscating books and pen and paper and such. I understand there are some other concerns that may warrant keeping usage of some of those under surveillance or similar (keep a pencil from being used as a s…

That all depends on whether one views prison as a deterrent, a punishment, or an attempt at reformation.

I view it as simply protecting society from a person who won't behave in society, by isolating him from society.

Re: People behave more sadistically when they’re bored

#90

Post by simmanian »

lapsedacademic wrote: post #73
simmanian wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe we should focus on separating criminals from non-criminals instead of punishing and torturing them. Give them an environment where they can thrive without being harmful to themselves and others. Let them re-join the society ONLY when they pose acceptable risk. This means violent criminals may never get to re-join the society, but that's okay given that they are still given a humane environment where they ca…

Penal colonies and other forms of exile are cruel and unusual. It's hard to conceive because this form of punishment has been disused in the west for nearly as long as drawing and quartering, but historical use of exile gives a sense for how extreme permanent exile is as a punishment. Even in the age of drawing and quartering, penal colonies were used primarily as an alternative to capital punishment. In the age of g…

I think the key difference is I'm focusing on allowing people to live with others they can synergize well with. I oppose the focus on punishing (torturing) criminals. I do not believe we should permanently exile all violent criminals into wilderness. I believe they should live in a safe and healthy environment where they can thrive. We shouldn't let someone who's likely to murder people out on the streets with no help to get them reintegrated just because they did their time. At the same time, there's no reason we should keep someone locked up when they have truly changed. Give criminals a healthy environment where they can thrive and even be happy. Give criminals a chance to join back when they really want to.
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