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Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#731

Post by JohnTHaller »

jacquesm wrote: post #341

If this comment thread is the way the self proclaimed smartest forum on the web deals with articles like this then we're doomed. This article contributes zero actual evidence, is littered with out of context quotes (including of all places the title), doesn't appear to understand the science or the probabilities involved and finally is clearly written with an agenda. It shouldn't have been posted to HN in the first p…

This is The Telegraph, a conservative UK paper that published such Covid-19 misinformation as the common cold conveying immunity against Covid-19 and the lockdowns were dumb and herd immunity was the way. Being devoid of fact is a feature not a bug. Fluff pieces like this from biased news sources known for spreading misinformation have no place on Hacker News.

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#732

Post by JohnTHaller »

brigandish wrote: post #388
jacquesm wrote: post #341

If this comment thread is the way the self proclaimed smartest forum on the web deals with articles like this then we're doomed. This article contributes zero actual evidence, is littered with out of context quotes (including of all places the title), doesn't appear to understand the science or the probabilities involved and finally is clearly written with an agenda. It shouldn't have been posted to HN in the first p…

What would that evidence look like? The House Committee on Oversight and Reform have a press release with more detail[1], which the Telegraph mentions - it's how I found it - and you can download a pdf which contains the partially redacted emails. It doesn't seem to me that the Telegraph has misled anyone regarding this news at all. Perhaps you could read it and be more precise as to where you think they're providing…

Redacted emails without any associated email thread for context with cherry-picked quotes published by two Republican Senators who have consistently spread Covid-19 misinformation.

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#733

Post by raxxorrax »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #542
raxxorrax wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I don't believe this story at all. I believe this is a story people tell themselves to feel better about "the others". The whole analytic lens of white people against minorities is purely made up in my opinion and I have seen no evidence to the contrary. On the other side justification was made up for real institutional discrimination against white people with the same lies that spawned accusations like this.…

"The whole analytic lens of white people against minorities is purely made up in my opinion and I have seen no evidence to the contrary." There are hundreds of interviews with Trump supporters or Brexiteers that say exactly what I have said. So how you arrive at "have seen no evidence" is astonishing to me. There are election posters for Brexit that are racist. There are books about the topic of people in the UK want…

This is getting off topic fast. I disagree, I believe a large part of the opposition you declare racist is not. Reactionary might make sense and it is very closely related to how information was handled here.

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#734

Post by loup-vaillant »

eloisius wrote: post #353
bellyfullofbac wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, holding strong to the logic that's like a mom concluding of her kindergartner "You're being evasive, this means definitely that you're hiding something" is ridiculous. If the outbreak started in Colorado, and Russia wanted access to the CDC lab there, Americans (officials and public) would also be crying and screaming...

Firstly, we’re not talking about America right now. Even so, the US has its faults, but is vastly more transparent than the CCP. I would be shocked if the US arrested scientists and journalists to conceal the origins of a viral outbreak.

> I would be shocked if the US arrested scientists and journalists to conceal the origins of a viral outbreak.

The US are actively prosecuting a journalist on phony charges because he helped expose their war crimes, among other things. The UK is of course actively complicit, which contributed in making his life a living hell.

Given that precedent, I wouldn't be shocked at all.

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#735

Post by ricardobayes »

tim333 wrote: post #626
MomoXenosaga wrote: post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop blaming the Russians, they can only exploit the rot if it's already there. It reminds me of Germans blaming everything on the Nazis after WW2 conveniently forgetting they voted for them and cheered them on.

I still blame them for exploiting the rot. I wish they could behave like a normal country instead of trying to destabilize most of the world.

I do believe all superpowers are doing that, US has a long history too to back certain leaders/powers etc.

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#736

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

afpx wrote: post #709
afpx wrote: post #695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really think that most people will buy that given that we haven't had a similar pandemic in 100 years? Also, if you're going to appeal to authority, please link to the HN comments that explain how "lab leak" explanations are rubbish. I'm more than happy to read them. In my opinion, we don't have nearly enough information to make such a decision, one way or the other.

The OP barely provided any information. Mainly they claimed authority on the issue and ruled it closed. It's also interesting how you continue to imply that I'm uneducated, dumb, etc. That's a great way to shut down a dialogue.

Where did I imply you're uneducated or dumb?

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#737

Post by ashwagary »

alevskaya wrote: post #608
brigandish wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would that evidence look like? The House Committee on Oversight and Reform have a press release with more detail[1], which the Telegraph mentions - it's how I found it - and you can download a pdf which contains the partially redacted emails. It doesn't seem to me that the Telegraph has misled anyone regarding this news at all. Perhaps you could read it and be more precise as to where you think they're providing…

I was a genetic engineer for two decades: - Clear signs of molecular manipulation in the sars-cov-2 sequence. There are none. Almost all of the alleged manipulations would have left unmistakeable, damning evidence in a recognizable vector. The only remotely interesting thing at all in the sequence is the furin site, but plenty of coronaviruses have those, and it just likely indicates selection/propagation in a second…

>There's no evidence for a lab-leak.

I tend to agree and the "intentional CCP release" theory also seems flawed.

If intentional, would China shoot itself in the foot by releasing a deadly virus in its OWN major cities and infect potentially millions/billions? There is a Chinatown in every major city in the world and it would be trivially easy to release in any one but they chose to attack their own city of Wuhan during the world military games "to own the West"? Seems silly.

Or would the US and its allies release a virus it knowingly funded the creation of, a few miles from a primary lab in a country they constantly call their 'greatest adversary & threat'?

One of these seems more likely than the other to an objective observer since this isn't the first time the US and its allies have engaged in chemical & bio-warfare against the Chinese population.

The foreign aircraft carriers and war ships surrounding the Chinese coast are perhaps yet another clue...

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#739

Post by seanmcdirmid »

cloverich wrote: post #723
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Russia wanted access to a CDC lab, the Americans would be crying and screaming regardless of whether something happened there or not.

Said hypothetical should include the disease originating around the lab, numerous conspicuous coverups and missing people, and a lack of transparent investigation. Should such a scenario happen, I think your argument becomes a bit of a strawman (i.e. that a segment of every nation's population would always cry foul in said scenario). I would expect more than just Russia would want access, and likewise that plenty of…

Why is it a strawman? If malfeasance is occurring, they will not want Russia looking at their lab, if malfeasance is not occurring, they still do not want Russia looking at their lab. I'm just pointing out the obvious, ((!A -> B) and (A -> B)) -> B.

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#740

Post by brigandish »

JohnTHaller wrote: post #732
brigandish wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would that evidence look like? The House Committee on Oversight and Reform have a press release with more detail[1], which the Telegraph mentions - it's how I found it - and you can download a pdf which contains the partially redacted emails. It doesn't seem to me that the Telegraph has misled anyone regarding this news at all. Perhaps you could read it and be more precise as to where you think they're providing…

Redacted emails without any associated email thread for context with cherry-picked quotes published by two Republican Senators who have consistently spread Covid-19 misinformation.

Not heavily redacted, there's certainly enough to be able to follow the thread - are you suggesting that the following quote could be given context that would change its meaning?

> ... Given the evidence presented and the discussions around it, I would conclude that a follow-up discussion on the possible origin of 2019-nCoV would be of much interest. However, I doubt if it needs to be done on very short term, given the importance of other activities of the scientific community, WHO and other stakeholders at present. It is my opinion that a non-natural origin of 2019-nCoV is highly unlikely at present. Any conspiracy theory can be approached with factual information.

> ... An accusation that nCoV-2019 might have been engineered and released into the environment by humans (accidental or intentional) would need to be supported by strong data, beyond a reasonable doubt. It is good that this possibility was discussed in detail with a team of experts.

> However, further debate about such accusations would unnecessarily distract top researchers from their active duties and do unnecessary harm to science in general and science in China in particular.

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