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DMV ‘revisiting’ its approach to regulating Tesla’s public self-driving test

latimes.com

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Re: DMV ‘revisiting’ its approach to regulating Tesla’s public self-driving test

#61

Post by ribosometronome »

anonporridge wrote: post #36
Thorentis wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't realise part of being a hacker was being okay with endangering lives.

We all endanger lives every time we get behind the wheel of a manually driven car.

Sure, and since we're part of the hacker community, we're doing some biohacking on ourselves before getting behind the wheel, right? You know, thc and microdosing LSD for creativity. A few shots of alcohol for easing social situations and anxiety. All while wearing a special VR headset that gives us a 360 degree view from the top of the car, of course. That's safe and not frowned upon when on public roads.

Re: DMV ‘revisiting’ its approach to regulating Tesla’s public self-driving test

#62

Post by simion314 »

sideshowb wrote: post #54
simion314 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It fits because humans are objectively shit drives who cause massive amounts of death, Why not maybe don't allow bad drivers to drive at all? Like don't give a license without 40 hours of driving school with a professor, have a test with traffic rules, then have a final test with an official. Have the drivers provide medical proof they are capable, Each time a driver does something dangerous like speeding remove his…

The trouble is it's still quite hard to model who will have a collision next, because collisions each year are still far fewer than the number of drivers. Although from a social standpoint they are too frequent, from a purely statistical point of view they are rare - in the sense of being the sort of event you might model with a poisson distribution. Sure, driving history can give an indication, but ultimately anyone…

Sure but statistics show some things, like drunk driving is bad so is AI the ONLY solution to drunk driving? Speeding is also aproblem is AI the ONLy solution to speeding? Texting or losing focus is a problem is Ai driving the ONLY solution?

No, there is more then 1 solution , tech can be used to help with preventing drunk driving, speeding and losing focus. Tech could be used for drive assist to help on tricky situation. Reducing the mass of cars could also help,

IMO the idea that AI driving is the only solution and we shouyld

1 do nothing else and wait for AI

2 rush the AI deployment be

is really bad because

1 we should implement other solutions too

2 we should not rush AI deployment , Tesla fanboys will hate it when some non-Tesla would beta test on their roads and keep the stats secret.

Re: DMV ‘revisiting’ its approach to regulating Tesla’s public self-driving test

#63

Post by Pyramus »

martindbp wrote: post #56
erulabs wrote: post #32

This topic aside, I guess I just feel like if the Hacker community is saying “don’t build things! It’s dangerous! What if someone gets hurt! Go DMV! Put a stop to that!”, then maybe I don’t want to be a Hacker anymore.

Wholeheartedly agree. I don't give much weight to the negativity on HN anymore. VR bad, crypto bad, Tesla bad, autonomous vehicles bad, billionaires in space bad. To me it's pretty clear that Tesla's audatiousness in pushing FSD could move up the advent of L4 by years, possibly saving hundreds of thousands of lives, for very little downside. In fact, I believe human+FSD is already safer on average, just due to the fa…

> In fact, I believe human+FSD is already safer on average, just due to the fact that FSD requires the driver to watch the road.

Are you saying that 'Full Self Driving' is safer because it is not full self driving?

Re: DMV ‘revisiting’ its approach to regulating Tesla’s public self-driving test

#64

Post by mavhc »

simion314 wrote: post #47
anonporridge wrote: post #2

Does anyone have good data on comparing deaths per mile driven between various auto brands? This data, https://www.tesladeaths.com/ , doesn't tell us much if accurate, other than Tesla crashes don't seem to be any kind of real problem in an absolute sense.

>Does anyone have good data on comparing deaths per mile driven between various auto brands? Hopefully this evaluation will force Tesla to share the data as the other companies, hopefully the army of fanboys have nothing against transparency.

USA drives 3.225 trillion miles per year, and kills 38000 people, that's about 1 death per 100 million miles. According to the anti Tesla site above, Tesla cars kill 1 person per 200 million miles. That's not accounting for deaths from pollution though

Re: DMV ‘revisiting’ its approach to regulating Tesla’s public self-driving test

#65

Post by mavhc »

gamblor956 wrote: post #20
anonporridge wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, still, try to compare it to equivalent brands and socio-economic groups. My point is that anti Tesla self driving sentiment is almost exclusively driven by emotion, not hard data. Show me the data that justifies why I need to be afraid of public FSD.

On an absolute basis , Tesla has more self-driving-related deaths than every other automaker in the world, combined. That doesn't scare you? On a relative basis, it's even scarier: scaled up to Toyota or GM numbers (in terms of vehicles sold), hundreds of people would be dying each year from self-driving crashes.

3000 people die every day from Human Driven Cars

Re: DMV ‘revisiting’ its approach to regulating Tesla’s public self-driving test

#66

Post by aaomidi »

mavhc wrote: post #64
simion314 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Does anyone have good data on comparing deaths per mile driven between various auto brands? Hopefully this evaluation will force Tesla to share the data as the other companies, hopefully the army of fanboys have nothing against transparency.

USA drives 3.225 trillion miles per year, and kills 38000 people, that's about 1 death per 100 million miles. According to the anti Tesla site above, Tesla cars kill 1 person per 200 million miles. That's not accounting for deaths from pollution though

That's....honestly bad.

Re: DMV ‘revisiting’ its approach to regulating Tesla’s public self-driving test

#67

Post by mavhc »

thereisnospork wrote: post #16

In other news, coming to your local bar, high school, and nursing home parking lots: The 2022 Hummer EV with 1,000hp capable of propelling its 9,000+ pounds to 60 mph in 3 seconds or less. Legally operable by anyone with a pulse[0]. I'm not sure its the AI drivers of the future that worry me. [0]Just about. https://www.gmc.com/electric/hummer-ev

Given the rate that non China/Tesla companies make EVs I wouldn't worry, they'll have sold about 12 by 2025

Re: DMV ‘revisiting’ its approach to regulating Tesla’s public self-driving test

#68

Post by mavhc »

pengaru wrote: post #22

Sure took long enough, do your jobs already. The general public shouldn't be forced to share roads with FSD Beta vehicles having a tendency to veer into oncoming traffic among other unpredictable and dangerous behaviors shown in various twitter videos. Nevermind the autopilot failures smashing into stopped emergency vehicles and semi trailers. I'm pro-EV but Tesla is a reckless shit show.

How many of the 10000ish FSD beta cars have crashed?

Re: DMV ‘revisiting’ its approach to regulating Tesla’s public self-driving test

#69

Post by kevingadd »

mavhc wrote: post #65
gamblor956 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On an absolute basis , Tesla has more self-driving-related deaths than every other automaker in the world, combined. That doesn't scare you? On a relative basis, it's even scarier: scaled up to Toyota or GM numbers (in terms of vehicles sold), hundreds of people would be dying each year from self-driving crashes.

3000 people die every day from Human Driven Cars

Until teslas don't require constant human attention and frequent interventions, this comparison doesn't matter. A human is still technically in control of the car.

Re: DMV ‘revisiting’ its approach to regulating Tesla’s public self-driving test

#70

Post by martindbp »

arcticbull wrote: post #33
erulabs wrote: post #32

This topic aside, I guess I just feel like if the Hacker community is saying “don’t build things! It’s dangerous! What if someone gets hurt! Go DMV! Put a stop to that!”, then maybe I don’t want to be a Hacker anymore.

There's good and bad ways to develop new technologies. It is our responsibility to champion the good and call out the bad. If not us, the people who actually understand and build the technology - then who? [edit] I'm pro EPA too btw, its nice that rivers don't catch fire.

If EPA regulations stood in the way of saving a million lives a year, yeah it would be a bad way to develop new technologies. We know humans are terrible drivers leading to countless tragedies. Tesla FSD is far from working at the moment, nobody is claiming otherwise. But it requires a human supervisor, and this is enforced by a driver facing camera. That combination likely makes it safer than the average driver already today.

What I'm seeing is that Tesla's appraoch, fleet learning, is likely to accelerate the advent of L4. If Tesla can solve this using the existing cheap camera sensors, they can scale this out incredibly fast. This year they are likely to produce upwards of 2 million vehicles, and by 2025 it's likely close to 6-7 million. Even if other self-driving solutions get there first, they have no way of reaching Tesla's scale as they need specialized sensors and partnerships with OEMs etc.

Consider the possibility that I'm right. By stoking fears and getting FSD banned or delayed, many lives would be lost in the name of safety, when there has been no fatality recorded on FSD.

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