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The next big Wi-Fi standard is for sensing, not communication (2021)

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Re: The next big Wi-Fi standard is for sensing, not communication (2021)

#81

Post by withinboredom »

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #74
rocqua wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adaptive ventilation and maybe even heating of rooms depending on the number of people present.

You can add a 100 euro CO2 sensor to control your HVAC. There isn't a use case for this that isn't abusive outside an industrial setting. I think if ISPs push for these in routers we will see comeback of rewiring houses with ethernet points.

I can see ISPs forcing you to use their modem with this WiFi built in. Then even if you put it in bridge mode, the WiFi stays active while it tracks you.

Re: The next big Wi-Fi standard is for sensing, not communication (2021)

#82

Post by qwertox »

This is not a future I'd like to see. What bothers me even more, is that if the neighbors above me decide to join an "Apple Security Sensing Program" by toggling it on, it may as well be sensing and logging my activity.

Other than that, I do have a lot of ESP32s at my place sensing for activity via IR as well as by creating an FFT-"audio" log. No sound just FFT aggregated over one second, but all these devices store the data on my home server, not in some cloud.

Re: The next big Wi-Fi standard is for sensing, not communication (2021)

#83

Post by thebeastie »

qwertox wrote: post #82

This is not a future I'd like to see. What bothers me even more, is that if the neighbors above me decide to join an "Apple Security Sensing Program" by toggling it on, it may as well be sensing and logging my activity. Other than that, I do have a lot of ESP32s at my place sensing for activity via IR as well as by creating an FFT-"audio" log. No sound just FFT aggregated over one second, but all these devices store…

Tell us more about the home sensors why ir? And what is the fft data for?

Re: The next big Wi-Fi standard is for sensing, not communication (2021)

#84

Post by transpute »

withinboredom wrote: post #81
DoingIsLearning wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can add a 100 euro CO2 sensor to control your HVAC. There isn't a use case for this that isn't abusive outside an industrial setting. I think if ISPs push for these in routers we will see comeback of rewiring houses with ethernet points.

I can see ISPs forcing you to use their modem with this WiFi built in. Then even if you put it in bridge mode, the WiFi stays active while it tracks you.

If an exclusive/monopoly ISP took that approach, the modem could be surrounded by copper mesh which allows air circulation for cooling, but impedes RF.

Re: The next big Wi-Fi standard is for sensing, not communication (2021)

#86

Post by oblio »

C19is20 wrote: post #80
giantg2 wrote: post #2

I don't know. Maybe I'm just getting old. It seems this, like a lot of new tech these days, will end up offering little benefit while providing new malicious capabilities.

It's been the same throughout history. Invent a tool...use it to kill.

I wouldn't be as negative.

Frequently we create the tool in order to kill with it.

After that we also use to tool to create.

We're equally capable of good and evil and yes, we are frequently good, too.

Re: The next big Wi-Fi standard is for sensing, not communication (2021)

#87

Post by lifeisstillgood »

leoh wrote: post #78
KingMachiavelli wrote: post #37

There seems to be a lot of FUD about this. Make no mistake, the malicious and privacy invasive applications are already being used; they just don't follow a IEEE spec and aren't associated with WiFi directly. If a maliciously controlled router wants to track you it already can because your phone, smart watch, and laptop already broadcast themselves. This technology may not seem useful to the purpose of WiFi on it's f…

So there’s FUD about something we should already reasonably have FUD about?

When analysing FUD always use the ELMER acronym

E - Expectations

L - Lifetime

M - Motivation

E - Environment

R - Reward

:-)

Re: The next big Wi-Fi standard is for sensing, not communication (2021)

#88

Post by lifeisstillgood »

transpute wrote: post #23
kadoban wrote: post #4

Who is actually asking for this? It can't be for consumers just wanting to use the internet right? I don't get it.

https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents... Security Environment Control Wake on approach, walk away lock Conference room occupancy Gesture control Elderly monitoring Baby monitoring Smart housekeeping Advertisement signage efficiency Motion detection Proximity detection People counting Human activity recognition Vital signs (e.g. heartrate) detection

The big one is "heartbeat detection".

"Tactical suggests there are 14 heartbeats in the room"

"During the interview the candidates heart rate increased during questions on their reasons for leaving the last position"

ohhh. There is sooo much here :-)

Re: The next big Wi-Fi standard is for sensing, not communication (2021)

#89

Post by lnsru »

thebeastie wrote: post #83
qwertox wrote: post #82

This is not a future I'd like to see. What bothers me even more, is that if the neighbors above me decide to join an "Apple Security Sensing Program" by toggling it on, it may as well be sensing and logging my activity. Other than that, I do have a lot of ESP32s at my place sensing for activity via IR as well as by creating an FFT-"audio" log. No sound just FFT aggregated over one second, but all these devices store…

Tell us more about the home sensors why ir? And what is the fft data for?

I feed fft data into machine learning system for signal classification. It’s a nice real time system with midrange Xilinx ZynQ SoC. Some Xilinx IP blocks with hand written classification engine.

I guess author wants to classify sounds in his environment too.

Re: The next big Wi-Fi standard is for sensing, not communication (2021)

#90

Post by visarga »

Ice_cream_suit wrote: post #39

Nice... SWAT teams, home burglars and the NSA will all be clients for the data. Once the granularity gets fine enough, movements involved in prayers, sex and elimination of waste can all be monitored remotely by state actors. Malware from around the world will now be able to transmit details of your body movements back to their controllers. Imagine being able to blackmail you because malware detected you having sex w…

Hmm, this is what I imagined: https://static01.nyt.com/images/2013/07/21/books/review/0721...
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