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Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#231

Post by Jansen312 »

bsder wrote: post #83

And we have research now that hypothesizes that Omicron incubated in mice and then jumped back to humans. If that hypothesis is true, then we have a fine example of something running in the background in a reservoir and then Hey, Presto! suddenly appearing to be mutated specifically for humans. If that's true, then all manner of "weird" things suddenly become both plausible and probable without any human intervention…

Whistleblower exist. The question is which country got the balls to prosecute. USA Biden? France Macron? Justice can only be served or enforced if there is a court operates it. When the most powerful nation own chief justices cowered to Antifa and BLM back then to even take on the fraud cases, anyone dare to take down dragon of the east. How many leaders scared of critisizing Kim or the Talebans? It is not whether China allow investigate it is no one brave enough to do a Covid Nuremberg...not even US military.

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#233

Post by Sparyjerry »

DarknessFalls wrote: post #71
jeremyjh wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a feature would make the virus very unsuccessful in bats, then how did it propagate? There had to be another cross-over species or something but no one has any data to suggest what that is. China has apparently made it impossible to do the work of piecing that together, so the lab leak hypothesis may never be put to bed. Maybe the party leadership believes a lab leak is likely even if they have no specific knowled…

To add to my original question, is the furin cleavage site further adapted in the Omicron variant, explaining its increased infectiousness? If so, what is the difference between that and the Delta variant?

The Omicron variant is actual prior to Delta variant and prior to all other variants even so named Alpha variant. This article indicates why Omicron could be yet another lab leak. https://bprice.substack.com/p/lab-leak-20

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#234

Post by dang »

RikNieu wrote: post #58

> “further debate would do unnecessary harm to science in general and science in China in particular”. You know what else causes unnecessary harm to science, public trust and health policy? Repeated and condescending lies and gas-lighting from those in charge.

Ok, but can you please not post unsubstantive comments or flamebait to HN? Your comment here is low-information/high-indignation. We're looking for the other way around.

"Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#235

Post by jraph »

zeptonix wrote: post #149
jraph wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do think it would be actionable as sibling comments point out, but I would find this knowledge interesting by itself (intellectual curiosity, I think we are at the right place for this). > focus hate That wouldn't be me. I would feel bad for the people who caused the leak (edit to be clear: if this is what happened, not assuming anything here). To be at the origin of such a pandemic spanning multiple years with all…

I think you're likely to be underestimating how psychopathic / purely driven by their research to the exclusion of all other factors these people are likely to be. You're probably assuming they have a normal / social / reasonable level of empathy, which is an assumption you're extending them, not necessarily one they deserve.

I don't know and I don't assume anything. I was only talking about my own curiosity on the origins of the covid. Though I haven't seriously looked into any particular thing about this recently, including today.

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#236

Post by dang »

slowmotiony wrote: post #171
grover35 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Oh give me a fucking break. Ever been to China? The country is ruled by Han supremacists and is openly racist to its own citizens who aren't Han. To defend the CCP using the argument of "Deep racism since the West existed" is just absurd party propaganda.

Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar, regardless of how right you are or feel you are. It just leads to hell. Also really tedious and repetitive threads, and we want the opposite.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#238

Post by mike_d »

partiallypro wrote: post #157

What really raises the most suspicion of the lab leak theory in my mind was how the Chinese government acted towards the rest of the scientific community...well before it was a theory at all. Not allowing foreign scientists in, destroying evidence, arresting journalists, etc. That just screams cover-up, even if there was none (in terms of a lab leak.) Then Western scientists that rely on grants with Chinese ties, etc…

> Not allowing foreign scientists in, destroying evidence, arresting journalists, etc.

That is par for the course. The Chinese government would have acted this way regardless of if it was a lab leak, natural event, or space aliens.

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#239

Post by sterlind »

sudosysgen wrote: post #201
riyadparvez wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't have the time to go through lawyer-speak arguments. The cables from officials regarding WIV safety have been verified. Just because it's on the opinion page doesn't mean it's false. It has way more credibility than some random virologist's claim about WIV safety on Reddit. Period. Just few points: * There's no agreement that this virus hasn't been engineered. Ralph Baric has said that just looking at the DNA…

> The cables from officials regarding WIV safety have been verified. Just because it's on the opinion page doesn't mean it's false. It has way more credibility than some random virologist's claim about WIV safety on Reddit. Period. The cables were written by an entrepreneur and a manager, and the opinion section isn't willing to publish them. That's not lawyer speak, that's the lengths you have to go to in order to i…

> You should read my reply - from that article, the infected scientist was at the time not wearing his PPE. The infection was due to his incompetence, and wouldn't have happened if he was actually following BSL4 regulations. It seems his colleagues saw this and thought it was fine.

that's.. worse though, right? that's an incident in a BSL-4 where an incautious scientist disregarded regulations, without his colleagues calling him on it, and leading to the release of SARS. that's the reality - regulations are always broken, colleagues are always complacent. why would WIV or any other BSL-4 be any better?

Re: Scientists believed Covid leaked from Wuhan lab, but feared debate could hurt

#240

Post by nervlord »

senectus1 wrote: post #209
disambiguation wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deliberate misinformation directly from your government meant to control the reaction of the masses is orders of magnitude more dangerous than your right-wing uncle meme-ing on Facebook. Not even close.

Not sure I agree. Its harder for Gov to keep a secret than it is for a facebook group to maintain a lie. much much harder. And there are various degrees of accountability to every level of a Gov. Not as much as I'd like and not as reliable as i'd like it to be, but its there. there is zero, zilch, no accountability for facebook liars.

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