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DMV ‘revisiting’ its approach to regulating Tesla’s public self-driving test

latimes.com

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Re: DMV ‘revisiting’ its approach to regulating Tesla’s public self-driving test

#21

Post by yumraj »

anonporridge wrote: post #2

Does anyone have good data on comparing deaths per mile driven between various auto brands? This data, https://www.tesladeaths.com/ , doesn't tell us much if accurate, other than Tesla crashes don't seem to be any kind of real problem in an absolute sense.

Tesla has to provide data that its technology works, not the other way around. Public doesn't have to prove or provide data for shit.

Just like drug companies have to prove that their medicines work before FDA approves them to be provided to patients, similarly Tesla has to provide data and prove that it works before it should have been unleashed on public roads since both, drugs and FSD/autopilot, have the capacity to kill if they don't work as designed/promised.

Re: DMV ‘revisiting’ its approach to regulating Tesla’s public self-driving test

#22

Post by pengaru »

Sure took long enough, do your jobs already. The general public shouldn't be forced to share roads with FSD Beta vehicles having a tendency to veer into oncoming traffic among other unpredictable and dangerous behaviors shown in various twitter videos. Nevermind the autopilot failures smashing into stopped emergency vehicles and semi trailers.

I'm pro-EV but Tesla is a reckless shit show.

Re: DMV ‘revisiting’ its approach to regulating Tesla’s public self-driving test

#23

Post by bpodgursky »

marricks wrote: post #14
anonporridge wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, still, try to compare it to equivalent brands and socio-economic groups. My point is that anti Tesla self driving sentiment is almost exclusively driven by emotion, not hard data. Show me the data that justifies why I need to be afraid of public FSD.

It’s a new technology which no one else is testing in the real world with actual drivers at such a scale. Onus is on Tesla to provide data for others to verify the claim that it’s safe.

I don't think this is a good faith answer; feels more like "I don't have a good answer for why this is a problem, so I'm going to punt it onto you to convince me"

Re: DMV ‘revisiting’ its approach to regulating Tesla’s public self-driving test

#24

Post by randomchars »

gamblor956 wrote: post #20
anonporridge wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, still, try to compare it to equivalent brands and socio-economic groups. My point is that anti Tesla self driving sentiment is almost exclusively driven by emotion, not hard data. Show me the data that justifies why I need to be afraid of public FSD.

On an absolute basis , Tesla has more self-driving-related deaths than every other automaker in the world, combined. That doesn't scare you? On a relative basis, it's even scarier: scaled up to Toyota or GM numbers (in terms of vehicles sold), hundreds of people would be dying each year from self-driving crashes.

But aren’t 10s of thousands of people dying from self-driving crashes?

Re: DMV ‘revisiting’ its approach to regulating Tesla’s public self-driving test

#25

Post by bryanlarsen »

gamblor956 wrote: post #20
anonporridge wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, still, try to compare it to equivalent brands and socio-economic groups. My point is that anti Tesla self driving sentiment is almost exclusively driven by emotion, not hard data. Show me the data that justifies why I need to be afraid of public FSD.

On an absolute basis , Tesla has more self-driving-related deaths than every other automaker in the world, combined. That doesn't scare you? On a relative basis, it's even scarier: scaled up to Toyota or GM numbers (in terms of vehicles sold), hundreds of people would be dying each year from self-driving crashes.

That sounds a lot better than the tens of thousands that die with humans at the wheel.

Re: DMV ‘revisiting’ its approach to regulating Tesla’s public self-driving test

#26

Post by emodendroket »

anonporridge wrote: post #2

Does anyone have good data on comparing deaths per mile driven between various auto brands? This data, https://www.tesladeaths.com/ , doesn't tell us much if accurate, other than Tesla crashes don't seem to be any kind of real problem in an absolute sense.

I've found this series illuminating. https://blog.piekniewski.info/2020/03/01/av-safety-myths-and...

Re: DMV ‘revisiting’ its approach to regulating Tesla’s public self-driving test

#27

Post by jjav »

anonporridge wrote: post #11
foepys wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since Tesla is a very young and upscale brand deaths per mile would be very misleading. You need to also account for price range, car type, and age of the vehicle. There is quite the difference getting into an accident with a 20 year old Honda Accord and a 3 year old Model 3.

Ok, still, try to compare it to equivalent brands and socio-economic groups. My point is that anti Tesla self driving sentiment is almost exclusively driven by emotion, not hard data. Show me the data that justifies why I need to be afraid of public FSD.

It is well-known that Teslas auto-brake-check cars at highway speeds (not with that intention of course, but same outcome). This is behavior for which non-AI drivers get arrested, for good reason.

That's enough reason to be very wary of Teslas on the road. There are others, but even one is enough.

Re: DMV ‘revisiting’ its approach to regulating Tesla’s public self-driving test

#28

Post by emodendroket »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #25
gamblor956 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On an absolute basis , Tesla has more self-driving-related deaths than every other automaker in the world, combined. That doesn't scare you? On a relative basis, it's even scarier: scaled up to Toyota or GM numbers (in terms of vehicles sold), hundreds of people would be dying each year from self-driving crashes.

That sounds a lot better than the tens of thousands that die with humans at the wheel.

Not if you start comparing against miles driven it doesn't.

Re: DMV ‘revisiting’ its approach to regulating Tesla’s public self-driving test

#29

Post by klyrs »

anonporridge wrote: post #15
klyrs wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We have limited problem solving resources, which means we need to be smart about how we use those resources to solve the problems that legitimately have the biggest impact on human suffering. Sounds great in principle, but how do self-driving cars fit into that picture?

It fits because humans are objectively shit drives who cause massive amounts of death, suffering, and property damage through car crashes all the time. Unless there's hard data that FSD is worse than the status quo, attempts to curtail it's use is not only a waste of time, but potentially actively contributing to unnecessary suffering if in fact it's contributing to fewer accidents.

Whatever Tesla is offering, it's not even remotely full self driving. It can't handle much beyond a highway on a sunny day, and even then, they have an unfortunate habit of crashing into stopped emergency vehicles.

Reduction of total cars on the road, in favor of competent mass transit, would do much more to actually reduce suffering. But Musk wants money, not improved quality of life for those who can't afford Teslas. This isn't some rinkydink charity, it's a fat slice of a trillion dollar industry.

Re: DMV ‘revisiting’ its approach to regulating Tesla’s public self-driving test

#30

Post by [deleted] »

gamblor956 wrote: post #20
anonporridge wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, still, try to compare it to equivalent brands and socio-economic groups. My point is that anti Tesla self driving sentiment is almost exclusively driven by emotion, not hard data. Show me the data that justifies why I need to be afraid of public FSD.

On an absolute basis , Tesla has more self-driving-related deaths than every other automaker in the world, combined. That doesn't scare you? On a relative basis, it's even scarier: scaled up to Toyota or GM numbers (in terms of vehicles sold), hundreds of people would be dying each year from self-driving crashes.

[deleted]
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