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U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

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Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

#671

Post by fastball »

zizee wrote: post #480
fastball wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who said you're not allowed to feel sorry for it? I feel like OP is being strawmanned. It's not like dexwiz said "fuck pigs test em more".

Well the grandparent responded to a comment observing no sympathy being shown, with a comment that showed no sympathy, instead with reasoning for why it's worthwhile, and downplaying any suffering. I am not saying dexwiz was encouraging/promoting suffering of pigs, but they were ignoring the original call to express sympathy to these animals.

People can feel sympathy without displaying it on queue for your gratification.

Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

#672

Post by s1artibartfast »

iancmceachern wrote: post #645
s1artibartfast wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All with severe limitations

Not really. Patients are able to leave the hospital, go home and resume normal life. They need to charge and maintain batteries on their person, and maintain the driveline exit site but all in all they have less limitations than say someone on dialysis.

Of course current LVADs are better than being dead, but still significantly worse than having a healthy heart, or transplant.

Heartmate III is one of the best and here are some summary outcomes[1]:

2 year survival after LVAD implant is around ~75%

2 year chance of stroke is ~10%

2 year chance of major infection is 58%, and sepsis is 15%

2 year chance of right heart failure is 34%.

Quality of life post implant and depression are real concerns. Some smaller studies have shown 5 year suicide rates as high as 10% following LVAD implantation.

Don't get me wrong, they are a miracle of modern science and engineering, but have limitations. There are reasons why they are not a destination therapy for people eligible to receive transplants.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1002/ejhf.2211

Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

#673

Post by TulliusCicero »

jakear wrote: post #453
TulliusCicero wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The way I see it, the "vegan utopia" would get rid of all small family farms (even strictly milk/egg ones) -- where animals are given all the food they need, have access to good medical care, are sheltered from predators, and are able to reproduce and nurse offspring This is, like, the most charitable interpretation possible of the current state of farming for meat.

Certainly large scale factory farms should be avoided at all costs. But animal husbandry is an ancient art that a good number of small family farms still practice. They're the ones I'm referring to here. Also note I'm specifically referring to egg/dairy production as opposed to meat production.

You don't get to do that in a discussion, just act like the main thing being lost would be only the nicest thing on your 'side'.

Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

#674

Post by desmosxxx »

Blikkentrekker wrote: post #646
iancmceachern wrote: post #644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, the former.

So say I carve a wound onto my skin, and then put live skin with a sufficient tissue match onto it and connect the blood vessels so that the new live skin does not die; then the live skin graft and my own damaged skin will hen heal into each other and form a connected totality?

For skin & a "sufficient tissue match", yes. See e.g. tissue scaffolds.

Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

#675

Post by mleonhard »

saalweachter wrote: post #633
tempestn wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't know that. Do all heart transplants come with pacemakers then? Edit: looks like it's just some nerves, not all. > Your transplanted heart will respond to activity a little differently. Your heart rate will not increase like it used to. And you will have a higher resting heart rate. This is because some of the nerves that control your heart were cut during your surgery. https://www.cham.org/HealthwiseArticle.…

My understanding -- which should be taken with two grains of salt, I'm a programmer not a doctor -- is that the pacemaker cells which actually go "beat now beat now beat now" are part of the heart itself, and transplanted with it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiac_pacemaker The nerves from the rest of the body are needed to tell these cells "we need more oxygen, beat faster" or "sleepy time, beat slower".

Could a surgeon cut the nerves and pacemaker cells away from the diseased heart and implant them into the donor heart?

Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

#676

Post by theplumber »

JetAlone wrote: post #495
theplumber wrote: post #487

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You built just a narrative that makes you comfortable with your life. It's not like the "saints" were the only ones tortured at the colosseum but as usually people remember and care only about the ones sharing the same beliefs(i.e pack mentality). People are bing killed and tortured today as well for various reasons(i.e "god" doesn't like their orientation or behaviour). See also Rohingya genocide. Do something for t…

That's a subtle antichrist attitude, falling in line with Judas' anger at Christ being given expensive ointment, saying it could have been sold and the proceeds distributed to the poor. It is to try to use good principles to spite the very Truth that the good principles are derived from in the first place. Moral actions need to point towards that transcendent - that's why I need to follow my religious convictions fir…

This discussion goes nowhere. From now on I will refrain myself from having discussions on religious themes with religious people. It's like talking with a support chatbot.

Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

#677

Post by zizee »

fastball wrote: post #671
zizee wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the grandparent responded to a comment observing no sympathy being shown, with a comment that showed no sympathy, instead with reasoning for why it's worthwhile, and downplaying any suffering. I am not saying dexwiz was encouraging/promoting suffering of pigs, but they were ignoring the original call to express sympathy to these animals.

People can feel sympathy without displaying it on queue for your gratification.

I think your missing the point I am trying to make. Hint: It's not for my gratification, I am not asking people to show sympathy.

Ironically, you accuse people of "strawmanning", and then proceed do the same to me.

Perhaps take a leaf out of your own book and stop assuming intent.

Have a splendid day.

Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

#678

Post by graderjs »

hulitu wrote: post #426
graderjs wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird that these statements are made (and I don't mean by you, it's a trope to make them by people in general in discussions like this, I'm not picking you out) that it somehow justifies, or ameliorates, the awfulness of experimenting then dissecting (as someone said) a helpless intelligent creature. I think these statements justify animal trials and using it to benefit humans definitely. But it doesn't justify or ma…

If you think that humans make terrible things to animals, you should check what they do to other humans. There are "beautiful, human" stories about a certain Dr. Mengele, or Unit 731 or Guantanamo...

Totally agree...and the asymmetry in where people are sympathetic toward abused animals, but not towards people...is very fucking strange.

Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

#679

Post by JetAlone »

theplumber wrote: post #676
JetAlone wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a subtle antichrist attitude, falling in line with Judas' anger at Christ being given expensive ointment, saying it could have been sold and the proceeds distributed to the poor. It is to try to use good principles to spite the very Truth that the good principles are derived from in the first place. Moral actions need to point towards that transcendent - that's why I need to follow my religious convictions fir…

This discussion goes nowhere. From now on I will refrain myself from having discussions on religious themes with religious people. It's like talking with a support chatbot.

BREAKING NEWS: discussion goes nowhere useful when you open by outright telling a person their worldview is deluded, and end on insulting their heroes and family.

If I've at all discouraged you from treating other people like this in the future at the cost of a few piddly little hacker news upvote points, I take this as a massive victory all around. It's a win for you too cause you might be a little calmer in future.

Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

#680

Post by iancmceachern »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #672
iancmceachern wrote: post #645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Patients are able to leave the hospital, go home and resume normal life. They need to charge and maintain batteries on their person, and maintain the driveline exit site but all in all they have less limitations than say someone on dialysis.

Of course current LVADs are better than being dead, but still significantly worse than having a healthy heart, or transplant. Heartmate III is one of the best and here are some summary outcomes[1]: 2 year survival after LVAD implant is around ~75% 2 year chance of stroke is ~10% 2 year chance of major infection is 58%, and sepsis is 15% 2 year chance of right heart failure is 34%. Quality of life post implant and dep…

Indeed, well said. It's important to also note that 2 year survival rates after a heart transplant are similar, 75%-80% survival 2 years after a heart transplant.
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