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Is the madness ever going to end?

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Re: Is the madness ever going to end?

#121

Post by Jensson »

petepete wrote: post #106
meetups323 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually they are websites. That's kinda the whole point... Spotify's desktop app is the same as open.spotify.com, Discord's is the same as discord.com, VS Code's is the same as vscode.dev, Slack is the same as.. something. But yeah, instead of those companies all needing 5 separate engineering teams (Web, Mac, Windows, iOS, Android, and you're joking if you think they'll make a Linux native app), they just make a web…

I think it's a huge pity that we're so reliant on platforms instead of protocols - there would be native Slack clients for every platform. Few companies even allow proper API access. Spotify buck the trend, Spot is a fantastic app https://github.com/xou816/spot

Small companies loves protocols, but as they become big and dominant they start pivoting to platforms to exert control and extract more profits from the ecosystem.

We need regulations around platforms, protocols are inherently more powerful and from the perspective of humanity almost always preferable over platforms, so the incentives of companies should reflect that, but it isn't right now.

Stuff like email, http etc is what makes computers great. I doubt anything like that could get invented today, companies would just create their own proprietary protocols and there would be no web browsers. Imagine if we just continued along that route and made protocols for everything instead of having big companies lock down computing habits via platforms.

Re: Is the madness ever going to end?

#123

Post by deft »

meetups323 wrote: post #81
Waterluvian wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m very critical when a company like Slack cannot find the time and resources to make native clients. I’m so #%^*ing tired of it taking three Mississippis to show a channel I click on. But on the whole, I don’t think the armchair critics truly appreciate how Electron reduces the cost by at least an order of magnitude. It’s a brilliant tool for shipping early and fast. My only criticism with these start-up use cases…

Usually they are websites. That's kinda the whole point... Spotify's desktop app is the same as open.spotify.com, Discord's is the same as discord.com, VS Code's is the same as vscode.dev, Slack is the same as.. something. But yeah, instead of those companies all needing 5 separate engineering teams (Web, Mac, Windows, iOS, Android, and you're joking if you think they'll make a Linux native app), they just make a web…

Slack isn't feature complete in their webapp if they even still have it. vscode.dev is new, the app existed for a long time. In practice, its the reverse; it allows you to turn an app into a website and add yet another supported platform.

Re: Is the madness ever going to end?

#124

Post by avereveard »

com2kid wrote: post #47
root_axis wrote: post #23

The author is fighting a strawman. Rather than engage with the specific problems these solutions were built to solve they dismissively regard them as just flavor of the week trends purely for the sake of chasing newness. This is true of the entire post, but I'll tackle just one since it's emblematic of my issues with all the rest: The argument for Electron and React Native isn't "it's modern", it's "it's much cheaper…

> The argument for Electron and React Native isn't "it's modern", it's "it's much cheaper". Expecations have changed. It is 2004, your company needs a simple CRUD app so your employees can work with some structured data in a DB somewhere, let's say so sales can check inventory levels in an existing database. A single developer can start up a Winforms project and throw something together in a matter of days to weeks.…

you're not wrong, but react/electron aren't the same ballpark as winform, flutter or xamarin forms are.

Re: Is the madness ever going to end?

#125

Post by SahAssar »

meetups323 wrote: post #111
SahAssar wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Slack, Spotify, Discord All those examples could or do work just as well as web apps, right? I don't think that's the authors message, but I'd rather have those type of apps be web-based instead of electron-based or native.

They are web apps... open.spotify.com, discord.com, app.slack.com. Even vscode.dev. The desktop product is just a repackaging of the web app with perhaps more OS integrations. If you don't want the OS integrations, use the web app. Some are available as a PWA too, which provides a nice middle ground.

They all have artificial restrictions in the web versions which makes them worse to encourage people to install the apps (actually not sure if discord does this, I've only used it a little bit). For spotify and slack there is definitely an active push to make their web apps worse than they need to be.

Re: Is the madness ever going to end?

#126

Post by vmception »

root_axis wrote: post #23

The author is fighting a strawman. Rather than engage with the specific problems these solutions were built to solve they dismissively regard them as just flavor of the week trends purely for the sake of chasing newness. This is true of the entire post, but I'll tackle just one since it's emblematic of my issues with all the rest: The argument for Electron and React Native isn't "it's modern", it's "it's much cheaper…

And then they’ll complain about ageism in tech!

Re: Is the madness ever going to end?

#127

Post by andrew_ »

This entire post is peak boomer-meme. It's a rant because "new is bad." Heaven forbid they just stick with what they like and let everyone else churn. Their loves in native and PHP aren't going anywhere. Weird to see a "didn't have my coffee" moment make the front page.

Re: Is the madness ever going to end?

#128

Post by tehbeard »

quanticle wrote: post #50
jcoletti wrote: post #30

"They constantly crash..." Putting aside the downsides and reasons not to use Electron, this statement is just false. They are not "constantly crashing." I currently use at least Figma, Insomnia, Slack, Spotify, and VS Code and these apps rarely crash, if ever.

I agree that these apps rarely crash , in the strict sense of the word. I don't think I've ever seen Slack get into a state where it's misbehaved to the point where the broader operating system has seen fit to kill the process. However, I have seen Slack get into weird states (like not updating read/unread status of messages, waiting forever for content to load, not showing notifications, etc) where the only way to f…

I mean, are any of those "not crashes" exclusively related to the domain of software written in a single language? Or is it a case of complex systems and not having AAA+ developers working on it?

> (like not updating read/unread status of messages, waiting forever for content to load, not showing notifications, etc)

I have had all 3 of those with Thunderbird.

Re: Is the madness ever going to end?

#129

Post by irrational »

I feel this so much. The direction web development has gone in is so insane to me. The complexity that has been introduced feels like complexity for the sake of complexity. In my opinion, the cons far outweigh the benefits. But I would never say this out loud since it feels like everyone else has drunk the flavoraid and is dismissive of anyone who is not on the bandwagon. I’m just thankful I can develop my own projects without the insanity and am counting down the years until I retire and never have to create a webpage using a build system (!!!) ever again.
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