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Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

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Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#361

Post by trasz »

ILMostro7 wrote: post #186
trasz wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's fascinating how one can actually believe Intel is manufacturing stuff using "slave labour in concentration camps" purely because his state propaganda tells them so.

Quoted post unavailable.

I'd guess they are comparable, but one difference is that US state propaganda is spread around the whole world, while the Chinese one stays in China.

The mere fact that Americans believe Chinese somehow cannot criticize their country's flaws - despite how obviously idiotic this belief would be - shows that.

(Or the belief that China is somehow trying to eradicate Winnie the Pooh, despite Chinese Disneyworld being a thing.)

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#362

Post by network2592 »

yakz wrote: post #338
trasz wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at this from a larger perspective. US killed a million random civilians in an attempt to to squash terrorism - and largely failed. China appears to have achieved this in an incomparably more humanitarian way. If this works out, this means: 1. USA failed (again) 2. They committed world's largest genocide since WW2 3. For no good reason This is an absolutely terrible outcome from PR point of view, so it's natural…

This has absolutely nothing to do with Intel or Xinjiang.

It is just a common whataboutism technique used by Wu Mao [0].

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29893724

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#363

Post by javajosh »

em500 wrote: post #141
javajosh wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel has no motive to falsely allege forced labor use in China. In fact, Intel has every motive to ignore abuses so as not to alienate the CCP. So, your implication that Intel jumped the gun and made false accusations without proof lacks motive, at the very least.

The motivation was likely some compliance move with the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act according to the TFA. There is no indication that Intel's initial wording was prompted by their own investigations in Xinjiang.

Clearly they believe (as do you) that specific mention of Xinjiang was not required for compliance. Is the theory that Intel intentionally added the word to make some moral or at least political point, at China's expense? I guess I don't buy that, because one of the upsides of being a ruthless corporation out only for profit is that you don't do things that risk profit.

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#364

Post by network2592 »

1024core wrote: post #309
trasz wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Most people would be unequivocally against slave concentration camps. When they exist. We know they exist in the US (private prisons), but there are no reliable sources that confirm they still exist in China.

You most likely don't care, but if you want to be educated, here are some Vice documentaries: https://www.vice.com/en/topic/uighur

Parent comment may not care. But just wanted to thank you for the link. Had just seen one documentary piece on VICE. I was not aware of these other pieces.

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#365

Post by creato »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #9
Invictus0 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Divestment will be a years long process, and it will only happen if we publish a schedule of annually increasing tariffs across all Chinese imports.

Perhaps it wasn't such a stupid idea after all....

It wasn't. What was stupid was waging a trade war with Europe at the same time.

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#366

Post by krono »

LegitShady wrote: post #150
krono wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe we're generally okay with these companies exploiting the Chinese to our benefit, but not with China exploiting the resulting situation to theirs.

there's no 'we' here.

Obviously meant as a very broad generalisation.

Thanks for clarifying you don't condone Chinese labour exploitation, though.

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#367

Post by bravo22 »

burkaman wrote: post #181
bravo22 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is saying that. They do what the shareholders want because that's who they legally work for. Shareholders can say screw China, take a stand and they will. They can't unilaterally say screw the shareholders we're going in this direction. A company is a group of people coming together for a purpose. Management can't destory the group in pursuit of their own values. A ship's captain can't risk the ship because of…

> They do what the shareholders want They haven't even asked what the shareholders want. They don't think they need to, because they believe that everyone will naturally share their belief that money is their highest priority.

Management doesn't ask shareholders for approval on every decision.

They have a duty to act in the best interest of the shareholder. Generally that means not having reduced revenue. This is what most people accept. If shareholders want them to do something different they can let them know.

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#368

Post by trasz »

vorpalhex wrote: post #206
trasz wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Most people would be unequivocally against slave concentration camps. When they exist. We know they exist in the US (private prisons), but there are no reliable sources that confirm they still exist in China.

We have satellite photos, eye witness testimony and even the Chinese government admits the facilities are there but has some nonsense about the people there choosing to be in a barbed wire facility with armed guards. Are you really suggesting keeping criminals who have had a trial and been found guilty by a jury of their peers is at all the same as a genocidal racial based campaign to remove an ethnic minority? [1] -…

I'm sorry, but your state media lied to you again: nobody is claiming those institutions don't exist. They do exist - and they are mostly similar to western youth correctional facilities. (Except in China you can't get imprisoned there simply because you wealthy parents wish so - differently from the US, where the "troubled teen camps" are a proper industry.)

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#369

Post by 3minus1 »

deltaonefour wrote: post #293
tharne wrote: post #139

I don't know why people keep expressing surprise at things like this. Contrary to what the U.S. Supreme Court would have you believe, corporations are not people and do not have morals or values. They are organizations that seek to maximize profit and grow. Any values a corporation projects are merely reflections of whatever the dominant moral force is in a given time and place. American corporations in the U.S. in 2…

>corporations are not people and do not have morals or values The irony of this is that all corporations and all decisions and actions taken by corporations are made by people. If anything corporations are the most clear and unmistakable reflection of what it truly means to be human without the masks we wear in daily life. Other than that, yeah I get what you're saying.

This isn't true when the people making the decisions are atypical humans in terms of morality. Consider two identical corporations where one has a normal morally conscious person and the other has a sociopath. If the second corp has an edge in business you could see how it could lead to non-average decision makers.

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#370

Post by trasz »

network2592 wrote: post #188
trasz wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Most people would be unequivocally against slave concentration camps. When they exist. We know they exist in the US (private prisons), but there are no reliable sources that confirm they still exist in China.

Quoted post unavailable.

No idea about Wumaos, in the west it might have been popularised by the Bible ("a beam in ones eye"). Still, pointing out that the accuser is doing it simply to deflect attention from much worse crimes they have committed seems universal.
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