Google search is OK for me in English. In my native language (central Europe), it's almost impossible to find content that is not eshop or someone selling something. I'm looking for HTML4 articles, phpbb forum discussion, etc. where people actually share knowledge, but I only get super-SEO optimized crap. The best I get is a blog spam from an eshop.
Does the content you're looking for exist in your language, and if so, can you find it on some other search engine? It seems like a lot of 'knowledge forums' are in English.
Is Google Search Deteriorating? Measuring Google's Search Quality in 2022
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Re: Is Google Search Deteriorating? Measuring Google's Search Quality in 2022
#412If you search for anything political on Google, you'll notice that the results are clearly slanted in one direction, towards the opinion of a handful of pre-approved news outlets. This leads me to seek alternatives whenever I need neutral sources, for instance Yahoo search.
That strikes me as a wonderful idea for a new search engine: Just politics. Authors and sites could create a mini profile to refine the results.
Re: Is Google Search Deteriorating? Measuring Google's Search Quality in 2022
#413Personally I'm at full scale war with ads on the internet and I make sure I see almost none (nowadays this can be achieved in a lot of ways - Pi-hole, NextDNS, uBlock etc.) So when recently my wife and I were searching for a holiday destination online on her laptop (with no blocking as she gets very annoyed if blocking makes even one page unusable - she'd rather drown in ads all day) I was pretty shocked that for alm…
Would you agree that every business needs to find ways to earn money? If we agree on that, could you agree that using a "free" service might be free only in the sense that you don't pay any money but instead they use your attention to sell ad space which in turn pays for their bills? Me personally, I don't see anything wrong with that.
“People are taking the piss out of you everyday. They butt into your life, take a cheap shot at you and then disappear. They leer at you from tall buildings and make you feel small. They make flippant comments from buses that imply you’re not sexy enough and that all the fun is happening somewhere else. They are on TV making your girlfriend feel inadequate. They have access to the most sophisticated technology the world has ever seen and they bully you with it. They are The Advertisers and they are laughing at you. You, however, are forbidden to touch them. Trademarks, intellectual property rights and copyright law mean advertisers can say what they like wherever they like with total impunity. Fuck that. Any advert in a public space that gives you no choice whether you see it or not is yours. It’s yours to take, re-arrange and re-use. You can do whatever you like with it. Asking for permission is like asking to keep a rock someone just threw at your head. You owe the companies nothing. Less than nothing, you especially don’t owe them any courtesy. They owe you. They have re-arranged the world to put themselves in front of you. They never asked for your permission, don’t even start asking for theirs.”
My personal philosophy is: if Google wants my money they should ask for it. Put their search engine behind a paywall. If they try to coerce me to give them money by selling my personality, needs and wants to advertisers I’ll try to prevent them any way I can.
Re: Is Google Search Deteriorating? Measuring Google's Search Quality in 2022
#414Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wish there was some standardized way to say "I trust you" on the internet, and share part of their information bubble (e.g. reviews, up/downvoted websites, youtube recommendations, etc.), and this bubble could have some transitive properties (if I trust X and X trusts Y, then to some extent I trust Y too). But it's probably too privacy sensitive (if I see which sites you upvoted, then I have some information about…
Well, every social media network tries to capture and monetize this, of course. But yes, it would be nice to have this in a less proprietary way. But I fear it's either going to be a privacy issue (because the person you trust has to publish every page they like and dislike), or it's going to be anonymous and therefore easily gamed by bad actors.
For example, I wouldn't mind sharing my upvoted websites/videos/products with everyone on HN, as long as it is anonymized. Bad actors can be distrusted by the community, I suppose (though moderation seems to be largely an unsolved problem still).
Re: Is Google Search Deteriorating? Measuring Google's Search Quality in 2022
#415Earlier quoted context omitted.
The world wide web is not the world. If it exists you can search it. Even if you need to open a client, run Discord search, and execute OCR to interpret the results. In tech, it's never what's possible, it's just what costs area reasonable.
Or what's legally allowed by the ToS...
Re: Is Google Search Deteriorating? Measuring Google's Search Quality in 2022
#416Earlier quoted context omitted.
But then tell me loud and clear that you did it . If WalterBright didn't see it it probably wasn't loud and clear enough.
Perhaps. I'll just point out that the wording I quoted is literally the first thing that the results page shows, in headline font. I don't often come to Amazon's defence, but here it's IMO a bit of a stretch to infer malicious intent.
Re: Is Google Search Deteriorating? Measuring Google's Search Quality in 2022
#417One thing I find annoying is that they still return results that are those sites that seem to register a load of terms that all point to the same page. You see this with telephone numbers, song lyrics etc. where the result looks like "Lyrics for Stairway to Heaven" but you click through and there is no content, just a page that says "Upload some lyrics to this song".. etc. These sites should be heavily penalised for…
If SEO works and a result appears closer to result #1 in the SERPs, then the "true", non SEO-assisted result it is displacing would appear further from result #1. Apply this across the board and what we have are many, many non-SEO results that are pushed down in Google's ranking. No one is "penalising" these pages, however they suffer visibility problems because they have not engaegd in SEO. The incentives created by Google's secretive ranking system and online advertising commercial focus are perverse or at least in conflict with the user's goals. Google discourages and even prevents any user from looking at results that were hits but were not ranked high. Pages that may not succombed to the the influence of such incentives may "disappear".
What if a user understands this and wants ignore the Google ranking system. What if the user wants to see the true, non-SEO results. Google actively limits the user's ability to see those displaced results. For example if a user searches for a common term, such as "example", she will not be able to view more than 200-300 results. Elsewhere in this thread someone also noted even with a paid API, Google limits users to 1000 results. If the user wants to the see the full range of pages that have hits for the word "example", she cannot do so. If the user would like to perform a single search for all pages containing the term "example" and then sort by some other objective criteria such as alphabetical by domainname, date, page size, etc., she cannot do so.
Under Google's model of the web, pages that do not acquiesce to an online advertising company's secretive ranking system may become nondiscoverable, despite the fact that they may indeed match the user's query. Computers assist us in searching through data but "relevance" is ultimately decided by the user. That is why we can have HN threads that claim search result quality is declining. Though they may be slower, humans can determine relevance better than any computer. From the disclosures of Matt Cutts and others we know that humans are involved in Google's ranking implementation. Penalties are used. The search process is not 100% math/computer-based. However, in Google's model of the web, filtering results is the exclusive domain of the online advertising company and only the humans on its payroll, not the user performing the search. There is no option to disable the online advertising company's "assistance" in filtering.
Re: Is Google Search Deteriorating? Measuring Google's Search Quality in 2022
#418When I search “tim lee food blogger age” Google actually shows results with “age” striked out (so it shows top results as if age wasn’t part of the queried string). Trying to think why/how it’d conclude that age wasn’t necessary for good results.
That's telling us to find only pages that have "tim lee" on it in that order, as well as the word "age" and food vlogger are nice to have but not required. And it turns out -- there's not a lot of pages. Certainly not many pages, it seems, about the Tim Lee you're looking for with his age. And that's because not everything we want is actually out there. There might not be a page that has his age.
So back to why we dropped it. By showing you some pages that don't have the word age on it, we're able to show some other pages that are generally about him, which might get you closer to the answer.
BTW, there is a Wikipedia page I've seen suggested as having the right answer for his age. But that's for a different Tim Lee -- not the food vlogger, and it also only lists his birth year, so knowing the exact age is hard
Re: Is Google Search Deteriorating? Measuring Google's Search Quality in 2022
#419When I search “tim lee food blogger age” Google actually shows results with “age” striked out (so it shows top results as if age wasn’t part of the queried string). Trying to think why/how it’d conclude that age wasn’t necessary for good results.
Query rewriting, a useless and use-hostile technique, strikes again! (No I am not talking about trying to fix spelling mistakes with "did you mean". I mean straight up removal or rewriting of correct English words) I am embarrassed by the whole field of NLP for making such a big deal out of a task that is fundamentally bad. Google optimizing for the "average user" comes at the expense of the whole world, because the…
Re: Is Google Search Deteriorating? Measuring Google's Search Quality in 2022
#420When I search “tim lee food blogger age” Google actually shows results with “age” striked out (so it shows top results as if age wasn’t part of the queried string). Trying to think why/how it’d conclude that age wasn’t necessary for good results.
Censoring terms of the search vector to find relevant results is a legitimate approach that works well. In this example, the article author gives a Wikipedia page as the desired top result. That document does not include the term "age" anywhere. Therefore you can see how the term is not necessary to the search.