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Google doesn't want to pay Sonos for technology it copied

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Re: Google doesn't want to pay Sonos for technology it copied

#191

Post by creato »

SSLy wrote: post #170
boringg wrote: post #104

Sonos thought they just got a sweet revenue stream on a BS patent. Such a mediocre company (Sonos). I'm not saying they are a patent troll company but they aren't too far. As a user with lots of their tech in my house I'm very unimpressed with their offering - this patent defense seems inline with their mediocre tech. Far from a Google Booster here but just funny to watch their revenue stream go up in flames - probab…

Google participated in industrial espionage while having talks with Sonos, then implemented what they've learned in their products. That's patents working as designed. Back in 2013, while Google was considering how it could make its music streaming service work on Sonos' speakers, the latter company gave the search giant an inside look at its technology. At the time, it didn't seem like a big deal. Google wasn't maki…

If that were the case, we'd be talking about something more substantive than the UI for grouping speakers together.

Re: Google doesn't want to pay Sonos for technology it copied

#193

Post by tssva »

halpert wrote: post #185
lostmsu wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't regular volume slider controls multiple remote speakers in case of connected Bluetooth headphones?

Again, it’s not the controlling of the speakers that was patented, it was the UI for grouping them and controlling them. Bluetooth headphones generally have the same controls as normal headphones, so they wouldn’t apply to this patent.

This is incorrect. The patent doesn't cover any specific UI. Part of what the patent covers is a controller on a network presenting a UI to control volume on a group of speakers not a specific implementation of the UI.

Re: Google doesn't want to pay Sonos for technology it copied

#195

Post by tssva »

SSLy wrote: post #170
boringg wrote: post #104

Sonos thought they just got a sweet revenue stream on a BS patent. Such a mediocre company (Sonos). I'm not saying they are a patent troll company but they aren't too far. As a user with lots of their tech in my house I'm very unimpressed with their offering - this patent defense seems inline with their mediocre tech. Far from a Google Booster here but just funny to watch their revenue stream go up in flames - probab…

Google participated in industrial espionage while having talks with Sonos, then implemented what they've learned in their products. That's patents working as designed. Back in 2013, while Google was considering how it could make its music streaming service work on Sonos' speakers, the latter company gave the search giant an inside look at its technology. At the time, it didn't seem like a big deal. Google wasn't maki…

When the patent case was originally filed Sonos claimed in their press releases that Google even used the same protocol to talk to their speakers that Sonos does. Insinuating that Google stole the protocol. That was actually part of the lawsuit they filed though. The reason why is because the protocols in question are standard UPnP protocols used by most network media devices.

Re: Google doesn't want to pay Sonos for technology it copied

#196

Post by markhahn »

josho wrote: post #154
rektide wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems much more like an idea than an invention to me.

That’s all an invention really is. At least according to the patent office. Here’s another example. Wouldn’t it be neat if the tree control in your file browser could have an icon that represents more than 1 file. That idea may or may not have much value. But you better not implement that idea because IBM has a patent on it. Patents in software rarely meet the bar that most people have of inventions.

unfortunately, the legitimacy of a patent is only determined by contention.

the simple elegance of the following has been lost:

"To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries."

Re: Google doesn't want to pay Sonos for technology it copied

#197

Post by tssva »

Bud wrote: post #40
jdavis703 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We may never know if Google used their special insider access with Sonos to steal technology or not. But the optics certainly don’t look good.

On the contrary, we already know, and the details in the suit prove it. Sonos engineers used packet sniffing. Google copied the precise techniques Sonos uses to set up and control speakers.

The techniques used are standard protocols that almost all media devices use and not some proprietary technology of Sonos.

Re: Google doesn't want to pay Sonos for technology it copied

#198

Post by Veen »

dirtybird04 wrote: post #173
Veen wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, Sonos hardware is great but their software is woefully bad: slow, buggy junk. But then, the same is true of Apple's stuff: HomePod hardware is very impressive, but Siri and Apple Music are crap.

Is Apple Music really crap? Their UI isn't the slickest but their service, audio quality, and music catalog is top notch. And unlike their Swedish counterparts, they aren't trying to push crappy podcasts on me to up their revenue

It's the UI latency that annoys me. I just opened it on my phone and had to wait 8 seconds before the "Listen Now" screen appeared. Same wait when I click on the "Browse".

Plus lots of irritating UI deficiencies, especially on the Mac version.

Re: Google doesn't want to pay Sonos for technology it copied

#199

Post by floatingatoll »

leoedin wrote: post #38
alistairSH wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Sonos claims Google actually did steal the technology. And the court agrees. From the article: Back in 2013, while Google was considering how it could make its music streaming service work on Sonos' speakers, the latter company gave the search giant an inside look at its technology. At the time, it didn't seem like a big deal. Google wasn't making speakers, and it wasn't in the smart home business at all. It woul…

The feature is about adjusting the volume of a group of speakers together. That doesn't sound like the kind of thing that you'd need to copy Sonos' source code to implement. Maybe that inside look lead Google to decide to enter the market, but I really doubt the person who wrote the speaker-group volume functionality had ever seen anything from Sonos. If they had they'd be facing copyright infringement lawsuits too.…

Disagreeing with the concepts of software patents doesn’t mitigate Google’s theft of them. Google knew they were stealing patented works when they did so. I don’t own any Sonos or Google products, and I’m still annoyed with Google for knowingly stealing when they could afford to pay.

Re: Google doesn't want to pay Sonos for technology it copied

#200

Post by gadders »

kleiba wrote: post #42

For example, these changes mean you'll no longer be able to control the volume of a group of speakers. Instead, you'll have to change the volume on each individually. It also means you'll no longer be able to use the volume buttons on your phone to control a speaker group. Not here to defend Google, but how can something trivial like that even be patentable?

No-one remember the Amazon one-click buy patent? [1] A lot of people weren't very happy about it [2]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1-Click

[2] http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/oreilly/news/patent_archive....

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