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Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

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Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#291

Post by harpersealtako »

defaultprimate wrote: post #190
999900000999 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

This is some Chinese propaganda-esque whataboutism. It's one of the oldest propaganda plays in the book. https://globalvoices.org/2021/08/19/the-chinese-government-d...

I have a really hard time understanding how we're supposed to stop this kind of thing, not just on the internet in general and not this comment in particular but on this site in particular.

HN has rules against accusations of bad faith, and they work 99% of the time, and I try hard not accuse an individual comment of being in bad faith even if I strongly suspect it. But it seems so obvious by looking at any thread about the Uyghur Genocide on Hacker News that there is a pattern when looking at the whole thread, the whole site, in aggregate. I'm not suggesting 50-cent-army-type astroturfing either -- I don't think it's 1 person with 100 accounts spreading FUD for malicious reasons, I think it's 100 people with 100 accounts spreading FUD about the Uyghur genocide because they are nationalistic and proud of their country for personal reasons.

I think this is bad, and needs to be stopped because the genocide in Xinjiang is too important, but I think that HN's policies about not accusing people of bad faith or astroturfing may actually make it harder to have honest discussions on the topic. It's a conspicuous failure case for a site where normally things don't get this bad. I'm not sure what a better policy would be either, which I suspect might be the reason why nothing has changed.

I apologize is this comment is considered rule-breaking, and I will remove it if it is. I just can't stand watching this kind of thing happen.

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#293

Post by deltaonefour »

tharne wrote: post #139

I don't know why people keep expressing surprise at things like this. Contrary to what the U.S. Supreme Court would have you believe, corporations are not people and do not have morals or values. They are organizations that seek to maximize profit and grow. Any values a corporation projects are merely reflections of whatever the dominant moral force is in a given time and place. American corporations in the U.S. in 2…

>corporations are not people and do not have morals or values

The irony of this is that all corporations and all decisions and actions taken by corporations are made by people. If anything corporations are the most clear and unmistakable reflection of what it truly means to be human without the masks we wear in daily life.

Other than that, yeah I get what you're saying.

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#294

Post by ir123 »

defaultprimate wrote: post #267
ir123 wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/CIAtimeline.html

[flagged]

I wasn't trying to argue or debate, I was trying to put your exaggerated comment into context

>You don't need nukes when you can destabilize and divide an entire country from within while having everything you need and more to psychologically manipulate the population however you want.

Your comment seems so silly, when USA has routinely destabilised countries throughout history. It's not even comparable actually.

You think that the existence of some black lives matter activists proves the moral superiority of USA?

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#295

Post by nonethewiser »

AnotherGoodName wrote: post #178
mmaunder wrote: post #166

What I find most dangerous about the United States bending to the will of China via their corporations is that it's affecting our story telling. The stories we tell define how we remember history, who our heroes are and what we think is worth fighting for. In 2012 the script of Red Dawn (a remake) was changed so that it was the North Koreans invading the US rather than the Chinese. This was done to avoid provoking th…

Another example amongst many: Musk is really 'edgy' on Twitter. He won't say shit about china though. He has a car plant there.

I think this is the best example. It's an extremely loud silence. Clearly no coincidence.

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#296

Post by deltaonefour »

duped wrote: post #288
tharne wrote: post #139

I don't know why people keep expressing surprise at things like this. Contrary to what the U.S. Supreme Court would have you believe, corporations are not people and do not have morals or values. They are organizations that seek to maximize profit and grow. Any values a corporation projects are merely reflections of whatever the dominant moral force is in a given time and place. American corporations in the U.S. in 2…

> corporations are not people and do not have morals or values. They are organizations that seek to maximize profit and grow. They are however made up of people who make moral decisions based on their values, including in their businesses. Plenty of corporations choose to do or not do things based on their ethics and morals. And acting as an agent of a corporation doesn't free you from moral peril when making those d…

>I don't expect Intel the Corporation to have values, but I do expect the people within Intel who choose where they manufacture or purchase manufactured goods to have qualms about using slave labor for it, supporting a genocide in doing so.

Human behavior is remarkably different depending on whether or not I'm the sole person on stage responsible for an action or whether I'm a single anonymous vote.

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#298

Post by octopoc »

nonethewiser wrote: post #283
me_me_mu_mu wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are tribalistic and end of the day whether you like it or not, the fact is that hundreds of millions of people (vast majority) are happy to live under ccp, just as {insert number} are happy to live under {insert country}. We can try to convince ourselves this isn't the case, but I don't exactly see progressive programmers giving up their massive Big Tech salaries as protest. No, they're happy to support whatev…

> People are tribalistic and end of the day whether you like it or not Yet there are no movies being made where the US triumphs over China.

That's because one of the key beliefs of the ruling tribe in the US is that tribalism is bad, ironically.

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#299

Post by pddpro »

SavantIdiot wrote: post #257
pddpro wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the very end of this sentiment is the fact that all movies depicting invasion should only be made if it's Alien invasion. In that way, no one's sentiment would be hurt and no one would be portrayed evil. At some point you have to ask yourself, do you want to remember history, it's atrocities, invasions, war-crimes etc and learn from it or do you want to forget all of that and be happy always?

There's huge a difference between a WW2 documentary accurately depicting the axis and allies, and the US films of the 1980's that were all anti middle-eastern / north african propaganda of wars that never happened. I believe the comment you are replying to is addressing the latter. "Any kid can conquer Libya just give him a fighter plane." - Dead Kennedys, "Rambozo the Clown"

I think that the point I'm trying to make is a bit different. If you do make a movie that's not a documentary and follows the traditional recipe of good vs evil, then there must be some evil that has to be portrayed. You make movies about "Mafia", then it might be the Italians, you make movies about "Cartels", might be Mexicans, make movies about "Jihadists", Afghans and so on.

At some point, a realization and acceptance that yeah, something along the lines of what's being shown happened but it's probably a bit spiced up cause it's a movie is needed. Either that or my original point i.e. make movies about Aliens exclusively. (Until their existence is proven anyways).

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#300

Post by nonethewiser »

ishikawa wrote: post #210
mmaunder wrote: post #166

What I find most dangerous about the United States bending to the will of China via their corporations is that it's affecting our story telling. The stories we tell define how we remember history, who our heroes are and what we think is worth fighting for. In 2012 the script of Red Dawn (a remake) was changed so that it was the North Koreans invading the US rather than the Chinese. This was done to avoid provoking th…

This is indeed a hard problem, when you have a country like China, with a long term strategic plan and control over its companies and a country like US in which companies are more focused on keep Wall Street and media happy.

The US government has long had the authority to limit trade with China. Can't blame companies for acting rationally, but you can blame the government for failing to tackling national security threats.
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