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Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

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Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#241

Post by vorpalhex »

jchook wrote: post #227
vorpalhex wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We are cracking down on slave labor supply chains. We are merely starting with the worst offender: China.

The US imprisons 5x as many people per capita as China and buys billions of dollars of products made by US prison slave labor. They could start there.

You can't know that because China doesn't publish stats for it's secret ethnic genocide program.

If you want to petition for better prisons, please do so. Please do not detract from the campaign of ethnic cleaning the rest of us are talking about.

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#242

Post by ir123 »

defaultprimate wrote: post #175
mmaunder wrote: post #166

What I find most dangerous about the United States bending to the will of China via their corporations is that it's affecting our story telling. The stories we tell define how we remember history, who our heroes are and what we think is worth fighting for. In 2012 the script of Red Dawn (a remake) was changed so that it was the North Koreans invading the US rather than the Chinese. This was done to avoid provoking th…

It's something I've stated repeatedly: The most dangerous part of China is not its military or nukes (they're actually hardly an offensive threat at all). It's how effective their global propaganda, cultural warfare, and data harvesting techniques are. You don't need nukes when you can destabilize and divide an entire country from within while having everything you need and more to psychologically manipulate the popu…

No post body was provided.

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#243

Post by defaultprimate »

bboylen wrote: post #233
defaultprimate wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's something I've stated repeatedly: The most dangerous part of China is not its military or nukes (they're actually hardly an offensive threat at all). It's how effective their global propaganda, cultural warfare, and data harvesting techniques are. You don't need nukes when you can destabilize and divide an entire country from within while having everything you need and more to psychologically manipulate the popu…

Haven't there been some recent reports that the U.S. might actually not fare so well against China in direct conflict? I don't think it would come to that at any rate, at least not in an all out war sense

>Haven't there been some recent reports that the U.S. might actually not fare so well against China in direct conflict?

By CCP propagandists and agency leaders trying to retain or increase their funding, sure lol. China has nowhere close to the supply chain, materiel, experience, or quality tech necessary to challenge the US in direct conflict. They have virtually no original military R&D. It's just poorly reverse engineered tech from incomplete stolen plans. Remember China has an interest in trying to convey how "good" its military tech is on the global stage. The US does not. Any time you find out about some "new" scary Chinese military capability, just remember it's decades old stolen garbage from a nation that is better off holding its cards close to its chest.

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#244

Post by radmuzom »

swagasaurus-rex wrote: post #237
radmuzom wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny how China doing something are always in the future tense. Whereas the ones who have committed the atrocity of actually illegally detaining an executive by putting pressure on a friendly country is the USA.

Weren't Canadian tourists arrested with bogus charges in response?

So? A criminal country with the worst instances of human rights violations and violation of international law all across the world illegally detains the CFO of a company because of their country; and you expect that her country is not going to take action on that?

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#245

Post by zwaps »

trasz wrote: post #177
network2592 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engaging in epistemic and semantic hair splitting does not alter the reality of slave concentration camps or make it any less worse. Here is a recent article [0] on rape and forced sterilization of Uyghur women. [0] https://nypost.com/2021/12/18/uyghur-women-recall-horrors-of...

Here's an article on the same thing happening in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_rape_in_the_United_Stat... .

Interestingly enough, if something is bad in the US, it can also be bad elsewhere.

Even worse though, there are indications that this behavior is institutionally supported and desired in China. After all, if the local governors make rules to force non-Uyghur men to sleep in the bed of Uyghur women (even married ones) and offer forced sterilization otherwise, perhaps - just perhaps - you are peddling a false equivalence.

By the way, the latter meets the definition of genocide. In case you care.

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#246

Post by godelski »

trasz wrote: post #177
network2592 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engaging in epistemic and semantic hair splitting does not alter the reality of slave concentration camps or make it any less worse. Here is a recent article [0] on rape and forced sterilization of Uyghur women. [0] https://nypost.com/2021/12/18/uyghur-women-recall-horrors-of...

Here's an article on the same thing happening in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_rape_in_the_United_Stat... .

I'm not sure what you're saying here. The parent is talking about rape and forced sterilization by people in positions of power in these camps. Your link is just talking about prison rape. There's no mention of forced sterilization. There is discussion of it talking about guards (4% of inmates are sexuality assaulted and I don't know how someone can compare these things with a straight face.

This is just whataboutism. You can care about both these issues, it's allowed.

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#247

Post by jevoten »

photochemsyn wrote: post #131
jevoten wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The investor class being those that have significant political influence. I sure don't recall any large boomer political movements demanding more offshoring. In fact, a politician promising the exact opposite was quite popular. But because they reap some minor, incidental payoff from a policy they did not choose, you're going to claim that means they were in favor of it??

People want money, in my experience. Cut their money flow and they get upset. Any effort to rebuild manufacturing in the USA will require corporations - major blue-chip outfits that pension funds invest heavily in - to spend billions of dollars building new factories and hiring employees at wages a good deal higher than what it costs in mainland China, Indonesia, Mexico, etc. This will cut dividend payouts to pension…

You imagine incorrectly - most Americans believe outsourcing hurts the economy:

On the one hand, the polls largely confirm that most Americans are mercantilists at heart. The Ipsos poll shows that 69% of Americans believe that outsourcing hurts the country -- and only 17% think it helps the economy. --https://foreignpolicy.com/2004/06/09/public-opinion-about-of...

I don't understand where you get your certainty from. I've hardly ever seen offshoring referred to positively, the attitudes towards globalization itself are lukewarm at best, politicians ride into office on rhetoric of tariffs and bringing back jobs, but you just know, because some economists claimed stock yields would be 30% lower in the short-term if the US doesn't massively export its hard-won technological and manufacturing know-how, that all this outsourcing was driven by popular sentiment, and that people will revolt against any attempts to stop or reverse it? Based on what? Widespread pro-outsourcing protests and grassroots activism?

As for rebuilding manufacturing - it wouldn't need to be rebuilt if it hadn't been exported in the first place. What kind of argument is that? "We did something unpopular, but undoing it would be painful, and pain is unpopular, therefore what we did was popular"?

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#248

Post by 2Gkashmiri »

educaysean wrote: post #231
2Gkashmiri wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i am not an american or chinese so a third party. here is my question. does "America has lost the narrative and the Chinese have gained it without question" this mean till now it was america who was defining what the rest of the world saw and remembered, making history for "everyone" not just for themselves. remember rambo and the mujahideen? america has for long used its power to influence narrative across the world…

It's not an America vs. China struggle as you put it. The "rest of the folk" around the world are not content with China's deliberate attempt to conceal, twist, and even completely rewrite the history either. Yes, America has enjoyed its massive worldwide influence over the past few decades and it has definitely gotten away with abusing it's power at times. Much of it was because the flow of information wasn't as fre…

sure. i have my hands full you know. i currently live in a place where posting a video or tweeting is seen as a threat to the country and journalists are being arrested left and right. just yesterday. https://thekashmirwalla.com/kashmiri-journalist-charged-for-...

i remember a time when religious folks used to feverently talk against "communism" as if it was a plague and all those dried up once ussr collapsed. turns out usa was funding anti-ussr sentiments in my hometown because why not.

sure. i do not enjoy "freedom of expression", living in a similar place like china.

i get your point. china is pushing their agenda aggressively but the way i have seen it in the last 40 odd years, 20 with the whole "war on terror" and "wmd" and even "gaddafi" and "arab spring", i find america just as dirty. you may not like it but remember, gaddafi wanted to trade in gold and not in american dollars and he was killed for that. same for saddam.

i personally believe having seen some action, no country, india, china, usa, france is willing to uphold "freedom of expression" if it threatens its interests, business interests. thats a simple fact. unless you face that

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#249

Post by pddpro »

alienbeast wrote: post #239
mmaunder wrote: post #166

What I find most dangerous about the United States bending to the will of China via their corporations is that it's affecting our story telling. The stories we tell define how we remember history, who our heroes are and what we think is worth fighting for. In 2012 the script of Red Dawn (a remake) was changed so that it was the North Koreans invading the US rather than the Chinese. This was done to avoid provoking th…

Here's another perspective: My wife is Chinese, and my son is half-Chinese, born in the USA. I want my son to grow up feeling American, not like an outsider. I don't want movies depicting China invading the USA, teaching his young and impressionable classmates that "Asian = evil invader". I don't want guys that look like him getting gunned down on TV by guys that look like Chris Hemsworth. As you said, the stories we…

At the very end of this sentiment is the fact that all movies depicting invasion should only be made if it's Alien invasion. In that way, no one's sentiment would be hurt and no one would be portrayed evil. At some point you have to ask yourself, do you want to remember history, it's atrocities, invasions, war-crimes etc and learn from it or do you want to forget all of that and be happy always?

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#250

Post by m12k »

mmaunder wrote: post #166

What I find most dangerous about the United States bending to the will of China via their corporations is that it's affecting our story telling. The stories we tell define how we remember history, who our heroes are and what we think is worth fighting for. In 2012 the script of Red Dawn (a remake) was changed so that it was the North Koreans invading the US rather than the Chinese. This was done to avoid provoking th…

China is very willing to play hardball and throw multinational corporations out unless they cooperate. The US is only just starting to consider actions like that (cf. Huawei and TikTok). I wonder if that's the next big shift in international politics - countries realizing that in the name of ideology (free trade) they've been freely giving away something very valuable - access to their domestic consumer market - which they could have been "charging" corporations quite a bit more for if they wanted to.
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