Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter • Hacker News Board

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#231

Post by educaysean » Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 5:14 PM UTC

2Gkashmiri wrote: post #202

mmaunder wrote: post #166

What I find most dangerous about the United States bending to the will of China via their corporations is that it's affecting our story telling. The stories we tell define how we remember history, who our heroes are and what we think is worth fighting for. In 2012 the script of Red Dawn (a remake) was changed so that it was the North Koreans invading the US rather than the Chinese. This was done to avoid provoking th…

i am not an american or chinese so a third party. here is my question. does "America has lost the narrative and the Chinese have gained it without question" this mean till now it was america who was defining what the rest of the world saw and remembered, making history for "everyone" not just for themselves. remember rambo and the mujahideen? america has for long used its power to influence narrative across the world…

It's not an America vs. China struggle as you put it. The "rest of the folk" around the world are not content with China's deliberate attempt to conceal, twist, and even completely rewrite the history either.

Yes, America has enjoyed its massive worldwide influence over the past few decades and it has definitely gotten away with abusing it's power at times. Much of it was because the flow of information wasn't as free back than as it is today, but it was also because America, for all its faults, really did at least try and do a lot of good as a "self-appointed world leader".

My opinions aren't exactly unbiased having grown up in South Korea (recipient of lots of good will from the US), but the situation isn't simply that America has lost its edge over China and is complaining - it's more that Chinese government is really aggressive in promoting their agenda and are much more willing to sacrifice certain ideals (freedom of expression, etc) to get there. I can say this as a person who have attended a secret Christian worship meeting in China: Say what you will about the US, but it's not China.

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#232

Post by kerneloftruth » Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 5:15 PM UTC

hwers wrote: post #179

mmaunder wrote: post #166

What I find most dangerous about the United States bending to the will of China via their corporations is that it's affecting our story telling. The stories we tell define how we remember history, who our heroes are and what we think is worth fighting for. In 2012 the script of Red Dawn (a remake) was changed so that it was the North Koreans invading the US rather than the Chinese. This was done to avoid provoking th…

Wow, I had no idea about that movie. The trailer and its popularity really makes it clear they are mentally preparing their population for war with the US in a big way.

They're very advanced in that effort. Their relationship with US media is deep, and the messaging US audiences see and hear is very soft on China and the CCP. Where is the Hollywood movie that criticizes their behavior at all? I can think of none.

Xi has great ambitions outside China, whereas our attentions have turned inward. With us seeing the adversary as being within our own ranks, he has a distracted and weakened opponent.

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#233

Post by bboylen » Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 5:16 PM UTC

defaultprimate wrote: post #175

mmaunder wrote: post #166

What I find most dangerous about the United States bending to the will of China via their corporations is that it's affecting our story telling. The stories we tell define how we remember history, who our heroes are and what we think is worth fighting for. In 2012 the script of Red Dawn (a remake) was changed so that it was the North Koreans invading the US rather than the Chinese. This was done to avoid provoking th…

It's something I've stated repeatedly: The most dangerous part of China is not its military or nukes (they're actually hardly an offensive threat at all). It's how effective their global propaganda, cultural warfare, and data harvesting techniques are. You don't need nukes when you can destabilize and divide an entire country from within while having everything you need and more to psychologically manipulate the popu…

Haven't there been some recent reports that the U.S. might actually not fare so well against China in direct conflict?

I don't think it would come to that at any rate, at least not in an all out war sense

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#234

Post by Steltek » Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 5:16 PM UTC

jimbob45 wrote: post #189

AnotherGoodName wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another example amongst many: Musk is really 'edgy' on Twitter. He won't say shit about china though. He has a car plant there.

That's fine but China's ultimately shooting themselves in the foot. "If they're not talking about you to your face, they're talking twice as much behind your back". No one is vacationing to China, no one is immigrating to China, no one willingly invests in China when alternatives are present. They're only going to prosper until they can no longer bully the world around economically and then they'll be post-Soviet Rus…

This sounds like how people talked about Trump in 2016: assuming that everyone else can see what you see while ignoring the animosity the US earned by throwing its weight around. Some countries, maybe with less societal concern for individual rights, might see it as beneficial to their bargaining position to have a little competition in the superpower space.

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#235

Post by dirtyid » Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 5:18 PM UTC

vanusa wrote: post #193

dirtyid wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel and most multinationals' sanitized position is going to be "slave/coerced labour" doesn't exist in their supply chain according to their (lax) audits and oversights. But they're forced to comply with US blanket sanction on the region. Because at the end of the day, a US company operates no differently than a PRC company that is completely beholden to the state security apparatus. Sorry to PRC market for being U…

Just because they take no outward "position" ... doesn't mean that internally they are not perfectly aware of what is happening in Xinjiang - and of the moral dimensions of their complicity in it.

Or internally these companies could be aware that US propaganda perpetuated under Mike Pompeo as head of state is just that, propaganda for US interests and there's no point attaching any morality and complicity to it. It's about compliance and drafting up PR to minimize fallout from useful idiots in both markets. Any company operating in PRC for 20+ years knows of rural labour transfer programs, even have reluctant suppliers pressured to take Uyghur workers by CCP because they're over compensated and underqualified. Half the reason terrorism exploded in XJ 2009 is due to drama caused by one of these programs (Shaoguan Incident). Companies with established supply chains in PRC knows these coerced labour stories are bullshit. There's about 400M other rural poor Chinese who will work for less than how much these transfer programs designed to boost minorities are paying. And they don't even need to be retrained for literacy skills.

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#236

Post by chasd00 » Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 5:19 PM UTC

trasz wrote: post #177

network2592 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Engaging in epistemic and semantic hair splitting does not alter the reality of slave concentration camps or make it any less worse. Here is a recent article [0] on rape and forced sterilization of Uyghur women. [0] https://nypost.com/2021/12/18/uyghur-women-recall-horrors-of...

Here's an article on the same thing happening in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_rape_in_the_United_Stat... .

from the NYPost article

"The year after she was arrested off the street, still in China, she was summoned to a police station and told that she needed to complete her training. "

if it's the same as prison rape in the US then what prison is she in? Further, prison rape is a crime.

"Her story is, tragically, not uncommon for members of the minority Uyghur religion, with Turkish roots, in President XI Jinping’s China. Since around 2016, they have been pulled off the street and sent to reeducation camps — where reports have surfaced about people being tortured, raped and even killed. They are sent there under the auspices of learning a trade and having their patriotism reinforced."

your attempt at equating this with the crime of prison rape in the US is reprehensible.

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#237

Post by swagasaurus-rex » Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 5:20 PM UTC

radmuzom wrote: post #223

tlear wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Silica is not an issue. Intel executives getting kidnapped(err arrested for illegal blah blah), local managers disappearing, sudden "corruption" investigations etc. There are 2 choices, clear out everything and everyone associated with Intel out of PRC or comply.

Funny how China doing something are always in the future tense. Whereas the ones who have committed the atrocity of actually illegally detaining an executive by putting pressure on a friendly country is the USA.

Weren't Canadian tourists arrested with bogus charges in response?

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#238

Post by president » Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 5:21 PM UTC

axiosgunnar wrote: post #2

Name and shame. We need to divest our manufacturing from China. Perhaps by exposing such practices and nagging hypocrytical companies we can make divestment happen sooner? Twitter mobs could be used for good once.

> We need to divest our manufacturing from China.

You would need the Wall St, corporate globalists, and their backers on board with that, which is impossible given that they own all of the dominant American politicians and institutions

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#239

Post by alienbeast » Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 5:22 PM UTC

mmaunder wrote: post #166

What I find most dangerous about the United States bending to the will of China via their corporations is that it's affecting our story telling. The stories we tell define how we remember history, who our heroes are and what we think is worth fighting for. In 2012 the script of Red Dawn (a remake) was changed so that it was the North Koreans invading the US rather than the Chinese. This was done to avoid provoking th…

Here's another perspective:

My wife is Chinese, and my son is half-Chinese, born in the USA. I want my son to grow up feeling American, not like an outsider. I don't want movies depicting China invading the USA, teaching his young and impressionable classmates that "Asian = evil invader". I don't want guys that look like him getting gunned down on TV by guys that look like Chris Hemsworth. As you said, the stories we tell shape our national psyche.

I agree the jingoistic CCP-controlled Chinese media does not depict Americans or whites with respect and tact. That's a problem. But it doesn't make it OK for the American media to do the same.

Re: Intel removes Xinjiang references from shareholder letter

#240

Post by dandare » Tue, Jan 11, 2022, 5:23 PM UTC

analyst74 wrote: post #112

Isn't the new wording more morally consistent? It still means they are against slave labor, including those in Xinjiang, but not blindly banning anything from the region.

To me it sounds less morally consistent. It says they are against slavery on the paper but will not do anything concrete to avoid profiting from slave labour in practice.