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Nothing like this will be built again (2002)

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Re: Nothing like this will be built again (2002)

#31

Post by rvba »

dls2016 wrote: post #14
le-mark wrote: post #6

Always a treat to read something by Charles Stross. Seems like Accelerando was required reading for the previous generation, is it still? I was not familiar with the UK advanced gas cooled reactors, which use CO2 to cool the core and transfer heat to the steam. From the name it seems to be gas and not supercritical CO2 although I may have that wrong. Power generation is the one topic that makes thermodynamics crystal…

My old man was a Navy nuke turned instrument tech at Three Mile Island... he can go on and on about steam tables. I worked there one refueling outage while lazing about after college. Highlights include: sweeping river muck out of the empty cooling towers, scrubbing pipes for x-ray analysis, standing "fire watch" since doors were propped open, taking a smoke break on top of the Unit 2 control room building ( that Uni…

Hey, maybe you can share something about the Three Mile Island accident.

I read somewhere that during the accident some insects were irradiated. One of the irradiated spiders later bit a man and that man mutated to be able to walk on walls, like a spider.

Do you know anything about this?

Re: Nothing like this will be built again (2002)

#32

Post by dls2016 »

rvba wrote: post #31
dls2016 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My old man was a Navy nuke turned instrument tech at Three Mile Island... he can go on and on about steam tables. I worked there one refueling outage while lazing about after college. Highlights include: sweeping river muck out of the empty cooling towers, scrubbing pipes for x-ray analysis, standing "fire watch" since doors were propped open, taking a smoke break on top of the Unit 2 control room building ( that Uni…

Hey, maybe you can share something about the Three Mile Island accident. I read somewhere that during the accident some insects were irradiated. One of the irradiated spiders later bit a man and that man mutated to be able to walk on walls, like a spider. Do you know anything about this?

I think I saw a documentary about this.

Re: Nothing like this will be built again (2002)

#33

Post by Closi »

6LLvveMx2koXfwn wrote: post #9

The Ferranti mainframes mentioned in the article are probably Argus 700 machines developed in 1968/9 [1] Amazing that such tech was still running important infrastructure only a decade ago. 1. http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/16225/Ferranti-Argus-...

They absolutely are Argus 700's, and a lot of the design of the systems is in the public domain.

> The computer system consists of a network of computer nodes, based on the Ferranti Argus 700 range of computers, assigned to each reactor unit, except where common station facilities are required. For each reactor unit, the computer system provides both data processing and automatic control functions. For essential data capture, control and display to the CCR operators, the processor hardware is duplicated. These are termed Level 1 systems and are shown in Figures 1 and 2. Single processor systems which collect data not considered essential for continued unit operation are termed Level 2 systems. Figure 3 illustrates the Level 2 computer system for both units. Torness NFS probably has the most complex computer configuration of any operating nuclear power station. The auto control "supersystem" consists of, per reactor, ten input multiplexing computers ("muxes"), eleven control computers (CCOI, CCO2 to CCI 1) and a dual online/ standby supervisory computer ("CS"). Each of these computers is a node in the hierarchical control supersystem shown schematically in Figure 2.

https://inis.iaea.org/collection/NCLCollectionStore/_Public/...

http://www.wjhill.net/Torness.pdf

Re: Nothing like this will be built again (2002)

#34

Post by teh_klev »

This excellent article reminds me of the time in the early 80's when I got to visit the Dounreay nuclear reactor complex[0]. Now we didn't quite get to see all the guts of the power station as Charlie did, but nonetheless even as a young teenager I was impressed by the scale and complexity of the engineering. The thing that really made the hairs on the back of my neck activate was standing right above the reactor itself. We also got a tour of the labs where radioactive components and other "hot" things were manipulated by remote control arms and grippers behind very thick glass. We even got to have a go, though obviously not with anything too dangerous :)

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dounreay

Re: Nothing like this will be built again (2002)

#35

Post by nottorp »

dls2016 wrote: post #32
rvba wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hey, maybe you can share something about the Three Mile Island accident. I read somewhere that during the accident some insects were irradiated. One of the irradiated spiders later bit a man and that man mutated to be able to walk on walls, like a spider. Do you know anything about this?

I think I saw a documentary about this.

The Marvel research institute has a whole series about it.

Re: Nothing like this will be built again (2002)

#37

Post by nottorp »

prionassembly wrote: post #28
le-mark wrote: post #6

Always a treat to read something by Charles Stross. Seems like Accelerando was required reading for the previous generation, is it still? I was not familiar with the UK advanced gas cooled reactors, which use CO2 to cool the core and transfer heat to the steam. From the name it seems to be gas and not supercritical CO2 although I may have that wrong. Power generation is the one topic that makes thermodynamics crystal…

I read "The Fountainhead" at age 18 and was marvelled by it. I even quoted bits of Howard Roark's speeches on second-handers. I re-read it at age 25 and, uh, it's a really bad novel built around a couple of awesome "yas queen" kind of put-down rants. I feel the same about Accelerando. At one point I was in a clubbing phase and always took my paperback in my jacket pockets. Then, I never fully read it a second time be…

Accelerando is geek bait. His best work is the Laundry series which he's still working on.

Disclaimer: no idea what his opinion of his work is.

Re: Nothing like this will be built again (2002)

#38

Post by yboris »

le-mark wrote: post #6

Always a treat to read something by Charles Stross. Seems like Accelerando was required reading for the previous generation, is it still? I was not familiar with the UK advanced gas cooled reactors, which use CO2 to cool the core and transfer heat to the steam. From the name it seems to be gas and not supercritical CO2 although I may have that wrong. Power generation is the one topic that makes thermodynamics crystal…

Accelerando is my all-time-favorite Sci Fi book. I read it twice now and will again in the near future. I'm 36 year old. I hope more people read this book.

Re: Nothing like this will be built again (2002)

#39

Post by wolfram74 »

ArtWomb wrote: post #18

"nothing like this will be built again" ITER / DEMO / PROTO plants planned to eclipse everything previous in scale. And with nuclear fission now classified as green tech by the EU, maybe the political will is finally here ;) https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220109-europe-nuclea...

The fact fission is classified as green /might/ impact fusion's future classification, but who knows. I was listening to a podcast and a disillusioned engineer said "environmentalists favorite nuclear power plant is always one that doesn't exist, as soon as it's ready to be built it's ready to be protested".

Probably an instance of many groups under one label acting disparately, but I get the sentiment :/

Re: Nothing like this will be built again (2002)

#40

Post by ncmncm »

ArtWomb wrote: post #18

"nothing like this will be built again" ITER / DEMO / PROTO plants planned to eclipse everything previous in scale. And with nuclear fission now classified as green tech by the EU, maybe the political will is finally here ;) https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220109-europe-nuclea...

ITER will generate no power. No liquid-metal neutron-absorber "blanket", no steam piping, no turbines.

DEMO / PROTO will, if not cancelled, be absolutely monstrous, but generate no more power than a wee fission plant. Until they destroy themselves with their own neutron flux. (They should build them underground, so they will already be buried when it is time to abandon them.)

It is inconceivable that any such project will ever produce enough value to pay for the absurd level of capital investment and operational costs just to make them operate at all. Cost would radically exceed the same-capacity fission plant, and fission plants are already not competitive. All the while before ground is even broken to start building any, power generation cost is in free fall, with no bottom in sight.

ITER is an end even more dead than the AGR.

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