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Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon

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Re: Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon

#191

Post by lloydarmbrust »

vertis wrote: post #183
waynesonfire wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read their methodology, > A good example of this is in the text written on the front of N95 and KN95 masks. The standards for each of these masks demand that very specific information be printed on the device. If a KN95 mask does not have the manufacturer name and the standard number they are meeting (GB 2828-2019 or GB2828-2006), then they cannot be considered KN95 masks Such masks are marked failed. My guess is tha…

I disagree with this methodology. At the very least it should be called out as the reason for the 'fail'. Yes, it's less than ideal to not follow the standard. But I would far rather an N95/KN95 mask that didn't have it correctly printed but otherwise passes the criteria than none at all. If it's a filtration test and it filters correctly give it a pass with an asterisk.

Yes the reasons for failing are in our testing notes being transcribed now. Over 250 hours of actual testing just to get to this part and with Omicron we wanted to get the raw data up ASAP.

Notes should be live in about 275 of them hopefully today.

Re: Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon

#192

Post by BTCOG »

nkurz wrote: post #19

Wow, this is fabulous! They spent almost $5000 to buy and test every mask available on Amazon. If you click on a mask it will take you to a page with the test details. More incredibly, most of the masks also have 5-7 minute video review! If you click on the "Breathability" column, then on "Grade" twice, you will end up with a list of masks that Pass with the most breathable masks first. Way to go, Lloyd. I've never h…

It's an incredible effort that he's put into all this. I'm very thankful for it and the video reviews are well done, some of them funny as well.

Re: Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon

#193

Post by lloydarmbrust »

creato wrote: post #116
lloydarmbrust wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not exactly.. it really depends on the situation. For example an ASTM 2 or 3 surgical mask fabric has a filtration of 98%+ On my face I have a leakage of about 21% or PFE of 79% when worn normally. With an ear saver, it jumps to 91%. With a mask brace, it jumps to 98%. So it really is about the fit. If I put leakage % it would vary from person to person and many people would be mislead by this.

Do you have the same measurement for you for an N95 with the typical elastic straps that you can share?

Yes but it differs from model to model.

I get as low as 80% and as high as 99% on my face.

Fit is a big deal because it's personal and hard to communicate. I think it was Amazon that found when scanning their workforce that they discovered 29 different face shapes!

Re: Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon

#194

Post by lloydarmbrust »

wrycoder wrote: post #107
lloydarmbrust wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good mask needs both fit and filtration... most people can put a mask on, check for air gaps and see how well it fits, but they don't have a $250k mask lab to make sure the fabric is good. We are just solving for the filtration and letting people figure out the fit. But, you make a good point, in the videos I try to point this out but we could do better. Where could I add this to make this more clear?

You could add a clear statement to the testing procedure popup that you are measuring the fabric only, and that (except for N95) the filtration of a mask is strongly dependent on fit and leakage.

Okay working on this now.. thanks for the suggestion. I should note that even N95 is extremely effected by fit. I've gotten as low as 80% filtration on a flat-fold N95.

Re: Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon

#195

Post by lloydarmbrust »

3np wrote: post #128
lloydarmbrust wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good mask needs both fit and filtration... most people can put a mask on, check for air gaps and see how well it fits, but they don't have a $250k mask lab to make sure the fabric is good. We are just solving for the filtration and letting people figure out the fit. But, you make a good point, in the videos I try to point this out but we could do better. Where could I add this to make this more clear?

I think it should be made way more clear - and here I take the opposite stance of the person you're replying to. Change title to "Comprehensive Mask Material Testing" or "Comprehensive Mask Fabric Testing" or similar. Similarly; "...that's why we're testing the filtration capabilities of every mask in our laboratory" At some point (on the front page, above the fold) there could be a small notice box explaining the di…

These are good points. Working on rewording this now.

Re: Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon

#196

Post by DangitBobby »

lloydarmbrust wrote: post #88
Tagbert wrote: post #29

@lloydarmbrust , I’m curious about the fail rating for masks where Standard = KN95 is fail? Specifically for masks that claim to be KN95 and filtration values are high. How do you determine a failure here? Just curious. I think this work is amazing.

Thanks! Yes we are adding those notes now... most of the KN95 fails are the incorrect markings on the mask. To pass the GB2626-2019 standard (where the KN95 lives) you have to put the manufacture name, standard name (eg, "GB2626-2019"), and mask type (eg, "KN95"). About 90% of "KN95s" on amazon are fake because they do not include this... I image because the manufacturers are just trying to make a quick buck and didn…

Do you consider this to be an important criteria? Are there any practical concerns when buying a mask that doesn't technically meet the spec that I'm not aware of?

Re: Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon

#197

Post by vertis »

lloydarmbrust wrote: post #191
vertis wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with this methodology. At the very least it should be called out as the reason for the 'fail'. Yes, it's less than ideal to not follow the standard. But I would far rather an N95/KN95 mask that didn't have it correctly printed but otherwise passes the criteria than none at all. If it's a filtration test and it filters correctly give it a pass with an asterisk.

Yes the reasons for failing are in our testing notes being transcribed now. Over 250 hours of actual testing just to get to this part and with Omicron we wanted to get the raw data up ASAP. Notes should be live in about 275 of them hopefully today.

It's a nitpick. I'm glad someone is doing this.

Re: Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon

#198

Post by nkurz »

MrDresden wrote: post #185

This is great, and thank you for going out of your way to do this. There seems to be some minor issue (I think) with the table you present on the page. I just watched the test done on the Gerson N95 Model 3230+ mask, and in that video you mention that you had just done a test on the Gerson N95 Model 3230 . However it does not seem to exist in the table. Perhaps there are more missing?

It's there, but it's missing the word "Gerson" in the description so it's easy to miss. If you search for 3230 you'll find it: https://www.armbrustusa.com/blogs/mask-review/n95-gerson-duc....

Re: Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon

#199

Post by halpert »

Qub3d wrote: post #126
halpert wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure a vented mask is at least as effective as a cloth or surgical mask in that regard, both of which mostly contain the aerosol spray rather than actually filter out small particles. I doubt the stores you go to require true respirators? Apparently the CDC agrees: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/respirator-use... > Yes, an N95 filtering facepiece respirator will protect you and provide sourc…

I'm sure its fine for most situations, but you should be aware: below that entry it states that elastomeric respirators (like you are using with P100) are not included in that category: > Until more is understood on exhalation valves, elastomeric respirators with unfiltered exhalation valves should not be used as source control in surgical and other healthcare settings due to concerns that air coming out of the exhal…

That's for healthcare and surgery, not for going to the store...

Re: Show HN: I bought and tested the filtration of every mask on Amazon

#200

Post by lloydarmbrust »

divbzero wrote: post #136
lloydarmbrust wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not exactly.. it really depends on the situation. For example an ASTM 2 or 3 surgical mask fabric has a filtration of 98%+ On my face I have a leakage of about 21% or PFE of 79% when worn normally. With an ear saver, it jumps to 91%. With a mask brace, it jumps to 98%. So it really is about the fit. If I put leakage % it would vary from person to person and many people would be mislead by this.

> On my face I have a leakage of about 21% or PFE of 79% when worn normally. > With an ear saver, it jumps to 91%. > With a mask brace, it jumps to 98%. I had no idea it could vary so much for surgical masks. I’d be curious what range of leakage people could typically expect for other designs such boat-shaped KF94 or flat-fold KN95 masks. Fit seems important enough to deserve a mention in the intro paragraph at the t…

Okay I put a disclaimer right on the front and we are typing up an explanation right now. Thank you for this feedback!

https://www.armbrustusa.com/pages/mask-testing

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