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Nothing like this will be built again (2002)

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Re: Nothing like this will be built again (2002)

#21
French power grid agency RTE made a report[0] forecasting 2050 France energy mix, and because of loss of knowledge and increased security measures, even with strong political will, France won't be able to maintain its 70% nuclear power electricity share. Most nuclear-intensive scenario in this report is max 50% nuclear energy.

[0]https://assets.rte-france.com/prod/public/2021-12/Futurs-Ene... in french

Re: Nothing like this will be built again (2002)

#23
post #18

"nothing like this will be built again" ITER / DEMO / PROTO plants planned to eclipse everything previous in scale. And with nuclear fission now classified as green tech by the EU, maybe the political will is finally here ;) https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220109-europe-nuclea...

I don't know about DEMO/PROTO, but even if ITER is successful, it won't be able to produce a single Watt of net energy (energy out - energy in)[0]

I'm not saying we should not keep investing in fusion research, but at the current state of things, it is still somewhat science fiction.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ4W1g-6JiY

Re: Nothing like this will be built again (2002)

#24

The Ferranti mainframes mentioned in the article are probably Argus 700 machines developed in 1968/9 [1] Amazing that such tech was still running important infrastructure only a decade ago. 1. http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/16225/Ferranti-Argus-...

> Amazing that such tech was still running important infrastructure only a decade ago.

2002 was 2 decades ago now ;-)

Re: Nothing like this will be built again (2002)

#26
This plant is exceptional. It is a vintage Ferrari among power plants. If hundreds of these were built, and then operated by the typical management competency of a large natural monopoly, would you bet they would all be as safe as this plant?

That's the context of nuclear safety. Big, bureaucratic, lowest-bidder contractors, bosses that are most competent at career management, lax oversight, privatized profit cushioned by socialized risk, ineffective whistleblower protection.

Re: Nothing like this will be built again (2002)

#28
post #6

Always a treat to read something by Charles Stross. Seems like Accelerando was required reading for the previous generation, is it still? I was not familiar with the UK advanced gas cooled reactors, which use CO2 to cool the core and transfer heat to the steam. From the name it seems to be gas and not supercritical CO2 although I may have that wrong. Power generation is the one topic that makes thermodynamics crystal…

I read "The Fountainhead" at age 18 and was marvelled by it. I even quoted bits of Howard Roark's speeches on second-handers. I re-read it at age 25 and, uh, it's a really bad novel built around a couple of awesome "yas queen" kind of put-down rants.

I feel the same about Accelerando. At one point I was in a clubbing phase and always took my paperback in my jacket pockets. Then, I never fully read it a second time because I can't get through Annette Benning, and I remember the flock of birds stuff at the end.

The linked text is pretty good, but Stross thinks too highly of himself re: his knowledge of science, and he presents his politics in a way that mildly annoys people who don't agree with his politics. Also, Accelerando ages as badly as Ayn Rand.

Re: Nothing like this will be built again (2002)

#29
post #6

Always a treat to read something by Charles Stross. Seems like Accelerando was required reading for the previous generation, is it still? I was not familiar with the UK advanced gas cooled reactors, which use CO2 to cool the core and transfer heat to the steam. From the name it seems to be gas and not supercritical CO2 although I may have that wrong. Power generation is the one topic that makes thermodynamics crystal…

Supercritical is the state of the CO2 gas. Smoothly intermediate from a regular gas to a liquid.

The coolant in these reactors would not normally be considered supercritical as its pressure (2.66 MPa max) is well below its critical pressure (7.38 MPa.)

https://www.eolss.net/Sample-Chapters/C08/E3-06-02-05.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercritical_carbon_dioxide

Re: Nothing like this will be built again (2002)

#30

French power grid agency RTE made a report[0] forecasting 2050 France energy mix, and because of loss of knowledge and increased security measures, even with strong political will, France won't be able to maintain its 70% nuclear power electricity share. Most nuclear-intensive scenario in this report is max 50% nuclear energy. [0] https://assets.rte-france.com/prod/public/2021-12/Futurs-Ene... in french

Even if you didn't have loss of knowledge or increased security measures, unless future French nuclear power can lower its costs, it will inevitably have a lower share in the French energy mix.
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