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PHP in 2022

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Re: PHP in 2022

#71

Post by egeozcan »

mschuster91 wrote: post #25
mojuba wrote: post #9

Is it just me or PHP's evolution is a bit "too little, too late" for an almost 30-years old language? PHP is not a likable language but it's probably not going away any time soon. Its concept of "one endpoint is one script" is one of its biggest killer features that no other language has been able to deploy in such an accessible manner. Well, Perl and old-style CGI aside, of course. That, and also the fact that it ma…

> Is it just me or PHP's evolution is a bit "too little, too late" for an almost 30-years old language? No. While PHP won't be the language of choice for academia or some new hipster startup that wants to woo junior engineers with the promise of "we're using the latest cool shit", the trio of PHP, Java and .NET with their associated ecosystems has managed the fine balance of evolution speed between uprooting everythi…

A typical Java project has way more complexity (and confusion and sadness and pain) than your typical node.js project in the enterprise world. I have stomach cramps thinking about the stuff my eyes have seen. .NET is not innocent either.

For PHP, just look at the Drupal, Joomla and Wordpress codebases to see how many ways there are to include files. For a current example, see the hate Laravel receives on how it does DI from Symfony-likers. There's also the Laminas (Zen) crowd going all-Java.

If something is popular, there WILL be many ways to do the same thing. Look at how Python is evolving.

Re: PHP in 2022

#72

Post by cies »

christophilus wrote: post #64
cies wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Javascript is what PHP should be since day 1. ReasonML or ReScript is what JS should have been since day 1.

Scheme is what JS should have been since day 1.

This is in fact an alternative universe I have thought about quite a bit.

I'm more on the strong-typed side of life nowadays. But otherwise I think it is a good choice. Also: HTML could be expressed in scheme as well. Scheme all the way down.

Re: PHP in 2022

#73

Post by fraktl »

cies wrote: post #40
cntainer wrote: post #21

I started my career in PHP ~15 years ago trying to do OOP in PHP 4.x. That was "fun". In the meantime I switched to other stacks but I've been keeping a distant eye on how PHP was evolving and I still am involved with PHP projects to a certain degree, though rarely at code level. I really appreciate the effort put into fixing most of the things I hated about the language, though at times it felt like the language and…

> Why would I choose PHP when starting a greenfield project? Because you don't know better. If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Ruby + Rails is miles ahead of PHP + Laravel. If you want more static typing (which I currently believe is a good thing) I really like Kotlin (+ KTor or + Javalin). If you are okay without OO and like static typing Haskell + IHP is pretty complete. If you are okay with…

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Re: PHP in 2022

#74

Post by vdo »

I learned to use php when I was like 14. I’m 27 now and still derive such joy when making my own little projects that will never see the light of day. I try to be humble as far as just being a php trash coder, but I don’t feel too ashamed honestly, as it is the most mainstream thing really. I will always be grateful to php for being accessible and yeah, I guess easy. I don’t know why php is the only one I really stuck with exactly, but it is weirdly dear to me. Nearly half my life I’ve never gone too far past being a lowly php coder, and not a great one at that, but I still like what I can make at the end of the day. It’s a side creative thing for me. Laravel was a revelation for me over the last few years, it just makes some things make sense that never did for me as a self-taught hobbyist.

Re: PHP in 2022

#75

Post by lnxg33k1 »

cies wrote: post #40
cntainer wrote: post #21

I started my career in PHP ~15 years ago trying to do OOP in PHP 4.x. That was "fun". In the meantime I switched to other stacks but I've been keeping a distant eye on how PHP was evolving and I still am involved with PHP projects to a certain degree, though rarely at code level. I really appreciate the effort put into fixing most of the things I hated about the language, though at times it felt like the language and…

> Why would I choose PHP when starting a greenfield project? Because you don't know better. If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Ruby + Rails is miles ahead of PHP + Laravel. If you want more static typing (which I currently believe is a good thing) I really like Kotlin (+ KTor or + Javalin). If you are okay without OO and like static typing Haskell + IHP is pretty complete. If you are okay with…

Ruby + Rails is miles ahead of PHP + Laravel.

Wtf are you saying Willis.. but i guess it's a matter of preference, also consider that in PHP you can also use symfony which is my preference, but regardless of everything, you either come here with a list of things that make ruby on rails miles ahead or people is just going to classify your ideas as worthless

Re: PHP in 2022

#76

Post by simias »

hparadiz wrote: post #60

I'm just leaving my current role, a fast growing start up with a completely custom framework. Currently at half a million active accounts but there's really no bottleneck with the PHP. Can easily keep throwing more boxes and hardware at it and I feel pretty comfy that it will be fine at 20 million active accounts. Also background jobs processing which is sort of async cause it lives on top of SQS and fires a sub proc…

I congratulate you on your successful projects but I don't understand what you mean by "PHP is C-like and written in C so the hate is funny to me". The language of the runtime is not particularly relevant unless you want to write custom extensions (which I remember being an absolutely atrocious experience back when I had to do in in ~2007, hopefully it improved since then) and the language itself is only very superficially C-like.

In fact the most C-like thing I remember about it is that many standard library functions where extremely thin wrappers around the libc, so thin in fact that you could get a segfault if you weren't careful.

Re: PHP in 2022

#77

Post by bluetomcat »

mojuba wrote: post #9

Is it just me or PHP's evolution is a bit "too little, too late" for an almost 30-years old language? PHP is not a likable language but it's probably not going away any time soon. Its concept of "one endpoint is one script" is one of its biggest killer features that no other language has been able to deploy in such an accessible manner. Well, Perl and old-style CGI aside, of course. That, and also the fact that it ma…

In its early years up until around 2006, PHP was mostly "HTML on steroids", that is, an HTML preprocessor with lots of goodies like "batteries-included" DB access, form handling, image processing, text processing, all accessed via a single Apache module. You simply rename your .html file to .php, and put some magic between "".

Then came along templating engines like Smarty, and they introduced a new templating language for a language that was already built for templating. For some reason, "" was considered much worse than "{$foo}".

Re: PHP in 2022

#78

Post by cies »

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #69
cies wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why would I choose PHP when starting a greenfield project? Because you don't know better. If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Ruby + Rails is miles ahead of PHP + Laravel. If you want more static typing (which I currently believe is a good thing) I really like Kotlin (+ KTor or + Javalin). If you are okay without OO and like static typing Haskell + IHP is pretty complete. If you are okay with…

Quoted post unavailable.

No post body was provided.

Re: PHP in 2022

#79

Post by kijin »

cies wrote: post #43
kijin wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are definitely parts of PHP and its ecosystem that have been trying to copy Java. On the flip side, PHP is quite similar to Java when it comes to its value proposition, so I can appreciate why the devs have chosen that path. Like Java, PHP is stable and slow-moving. It takes backward compatibility seriously, and it has a huge community. PHP is to small-time "webmasters" and lifestyle businesses what Java is to…

Why would one pick PHP over Java except because "you already know PHP"? > If you're a fast-moving startup who will replace your entire codebase every six months, you might be better served by JS. Noooooo... :)

> Why would one pick PHP over Java except because "you already know PHP"?

If it's a lifestyle business or hobby project, it usually costs less to host a PHP app somewhere than to find a place where you can get decent performance out of the JVM. Even a small droplet can be a lot of money and effort for some people in some parts of the world. I often see kids pick up PHP for this reason alone. Then they stick with what they know.

Re: PHP in 2022

#80

Post by The_Colonel »

f311a wrote: post #48
The_Colonel wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That applies to Ruby and Python as well.

Not sure about Ruby, but Python is a pretty popular choice. There are tons of open source projects that are used by big players for data processing and complex backends.

Might be used for that, but Python certainly wasn't "designed for long-running processes or data processing at first" which was your original argument.

These 3 languages are pretty comparable in many ways.

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