If it gets you one degree closer to Kevin it's worth it.
(Kevin Bacon?)
U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient
181–190 of 731 posts
Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pigs are really common in biomedical testing. They are physically a similar size and weight to humans. They also reach maturity in about 6 months. Much cheaper to raise than primates, and more likely to get approval for testing. My friends in biomed grad school named one of theirs cyber pig because it has about 30 different experiments ran on it before it was killed, and afterwards it was portioned out for further te…
Bit of a tangent: I read the article to my wife and she mentioned that there is an episode of Grey's Anatomy where they wanted to perform a transplant of a pig's bowels but the Jewish (or Muslim?) lady refused. Interesting how one might choose to their faith over their life.
“[The] prohibition against touching pigs applied only when Jews were on their way to Jerusalem to observe the three pilgrimage festivals”, “Even on the way to Jerusalem, Jews were only prohibited from touching the flesh, that is, the meat of a pig. According to halacha (Jewish law) the skin of an animal does not transmit impurities”.
“Beyond that, there’s a very important tenet of Judaism called pikuach nefesh, or, saving a life. [Most Jewish laws] can and in fact should be violated in order to save a person’s life”.
Quotes from link in sibling comment by mizzao.
Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
Weird to have a a scientist behaving so irrationally regarding pigs vs dogs, especially because the pig was chosen for its likeness to a human.
I was about to say, aren't pigs smarter than dogs generally? Seems like a strange line to draw.
Obviously it's very culture specific, but pigs are quite far from 'man's best friend'.
Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
They end up on my dinner plate as a delicious high-protein meal.
No reason to gloat. Yea, I eat them too, but not proud of my actions.
Not gloating. I genuinely enjoy eating pork and meat in general. It's the most nutritious food a human can eat in my humble opinion. I hold no shame in eating and enjoying meat.
If I was a scientist and a piggie died as part of an experiment or whatever. I would do my best to eat the piggie and not let any part of it end up in the trash and going to waste.
Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient
#185Genuine question: why is an artificial heart such a hard thing to make? At least from a lay-person's perspective, it's just some pumps and valves, which we've gotten pretty good at making. Obviously I'm wrong about that because there really isn't a permanent artificial heart yet, but it's something I have wondered for awhile.
It has been done, as mentioned by other comments. My recollection is that aside from power & control, the hardest problem is clotting. The natural heart apparently causes the blood to flow in a way that there is no pooling or stagnation, whereas almost any fixed-shape chamber apparently has locations where the fluid will stagnate, and with blood, that will cause clots in a very short time. When those clots get loose,…
This was indeed the case for the early total artificial hearts implants (Jarvik-7), https://youtu.be/0Xn5u-LzsW8 is a nice short documentary about it
Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
My father got a brand new cow valve a few months ago. He had to choose between that, a pig one and a mechanical one, each one is better for each specific case from what I understand. But yeah, crazy stuff.
I imagine Muslims, Jews, and Hindus would tend to have specific preferences as well.
I'm not sure why you are being downvoted. I know several Jews that I very much suspect would have a visceral reaction and not want the pig-based option, regardless of whether that's really what Jewish law requires.
Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
I doubt it. All disposed of according to hazardous waste rules. Also, large study animals are so important that most tissues and bits are studied during necropsy in close details with retained material kept frozen for years.
Actually, I heard an NPR story over the holidays about a tick borne disease that causes a meat allergy, and how pigs raised for another purpose then became suitable for butchering to eat their meat for people with that disease... So it happens in at least one case.
“ In 2020 the U.S. Food and Drug Administration approved genetic modification of pigs so they do not produce alpha-gal sugars. Pigs developed with the trademarked name GalSafe may be able to be eaten safely by people with alpha-gal allergy.[44] They may also produce alpha-gal-safe drugs,[45] and their organs can also be used for xenotransplantation.”
Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
Bit of a tangent: I read the article to my wife and she mentioned that there is an episode of Grey's Anatomy where they wanted to perform a transplant of a pig's bowels but the Jewish (or Muslim?) lady refused. Interesting how one might choose to their faith over their life.
> Interesting how one might choose to their faith over their life. The belief in the right to a predictably long life is a new idea barely a few centuries old at most. Not that I'm personally complaining, but the statement did make me think, the value of living longer for everyone is not self-evident (at least from where I am standing), and the presumption that it is seems in itself dogmatic. Actually, I could sugges…
> [T]he value of living longer for everyone is not self-evident (at least from where I am standing), and the presumption that it is seems in itself dogmatic.
A couple of different perspectives on the issue:
Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
Bit of a tangent: I read the article to my wife and she mentioned that there is an episode of Grey's Anatomy where they wanted to perform a transplant of a pig's bowels but the Jewish (or Muslim?) lady refused. Interesting how one might choose to their faith over their life.
> Interesting how one might choose to their faith over their life. The belief in the right to a predictably long life is a new idea barely a few centuries old at most. Not that I'm personally complaining, but the statement did make me think, the value of living longer for everyone is not self-evident (at least from where I am standing), and the presumption that it is seems in itself dogmatic. Actually, I could sugges…
>"Actually, I could suggest a few non-faith approaches to rationalize the benefit of early death"
The best way to convince the others is to put your money where your mouth is.
Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
Bit of a tangent: I read the article to my wife and she mentioned that there is an episode of Grey's Anatomy where they wanted to perform a transplant of a pig's bowels but the Jewish (or Muslim?) lady refused. Interesting how one might choose to their faith over their life.
“[The] prohibition against touching pigs applied only when Jews were on their way to Jerusalem to observe the three pilgrimage festivals”, “Even on the way to Jerusalem, Jews were only prohibited from touching the flesh, that is, the meat of a pig. According to halacha (Jewish law) the skin of an animal does not transmit impurities”. “Beyond that, there’s a very important tenet of Judaism called pikuach nefesh, or, s…
This used to come up in the context of insulin as well -- now it's all produced from genetically engineered microbes, but porcine insulin used to be widely used.
Both Jewish and Muslim scholars were very clear that if you need insulin and porcine is the only option, not only is it permitted to use it but it is required and failing to do so is a grave sin.