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More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

theatlantic.com

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Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#881

Post by JPKab »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #255
thomascgalvin wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are a number of factors at play. One, we've greatly reduced the risk of COVID through vaccines. This is the primary thrust of the article; if you've vaccinated, you're very unlikely to have serious consequences. Two, we're fatigued. You just can't be constantly vigilant for two or three years without something breaking. This compounds point one. We don't, as the article mentions, know what kind of relat…

> Third, a large portion of the population is in denial about their own levels of risk. If there was a 1% chance of dying every time you drove a car, or even a 1% chance of dying every time you got into a car accident, there would be panic in the streets, no pun intended. But a lot of people round a 1% chance of dying from COVID down to zero. I don't think you and I differ much in our broad conclusions on covid, but…

Agreed.

An obvious example of this is that the CDC numbers on COVID deaths by age. It's blatantly obvious, yet people on here wave their hand and say "1%" as if most HN readers are remotely close to 1% death rate, when it's a community composed of software engineers, a profession that skews young as a whole.

Here's the stats. Bear in mind that the distribution of CASES skews young.

https://data.cdc.gov/widgets/9bhg-hcku?mobile_redirect=true

Roughly 20,000 people between 18 and 40 died of covid.

About 35,000 between 40 and 50.

426k of the deaths were age 75 and up. 188k were people between 65 - 74.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#882

Post by honkycat »

maerF0x0 wrote: post #876
honkycat wrote: post #861

Earlier quoted context omitted.

85% of COVID-19 hospitalizations were among those not fully vaccinated.[0] 90% of people who are dying from covid are unvaccinated.[1] 10 in 100,000 people in your likely age range experience myocarditis.[2] However, yeah, if you have had a bad reaction before, you are likely to have another bad reaction. I'm sorry you went through that. > Yes it's 80% effective at eliminating _hospitalization_ but vaccinated people…

Your myocarditis source seems to be off?

How so?

``` Among more than 2.5 million vaccinated HCO members who were 16 years of age or older, 54 cases met the criteria for myocarditis. The estimated incidence per 100,000 persons who had received at least one dose of vaccine was 2.13 cases (95% confidence interval [CI], 1.56 to 2.70). The highest incidence of myocarditis (10.69 cases per 100,000 persons; 95% CI, 6.93 to 14.46) was reported in male patients between the ages of 16 and 29 years. ```

seems pretty clear cut to me.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#883

Post by a45a33s »

robertoandred wrote: post #592
defaultprimate wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

What sort of long-term effects? Which harmful vaccine are you using as a reference?

mass injections of mrna vaccines is a new thing so there is no comparable reference point

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#884

Post by yucky »

afavour wrote: post #129

I'm vaxxed. I'm boosted. I'd very much like to be done. But my children cannot be vaccinated. As a parent of a young kid it kind of feels like everyone has just moved on. I know folks in here will tell me that statistically speaking my children are unlikely to be hospitalized and so on, and I agree. But I know enough kids who got COVID and suffered the symptoms (e.g. a months-long scratchy cough) that I'm not going t…

>Moderna was supposed to close out a trial in late November but instead expanded it to hundreds of new participants. Why? Unclear.

Well if you look at all the European countries that are no longer giving Moderna to males under 30, I think you'll have your answer. Don't wait for CNN to tell you why either. Also, scroll through here https://airtable.com/shrbaT4x8LG8EbvVG/tbl7xKsSUIOPAa7Mx

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#885

Post by rexpop »

snowwrestler wrote: post #133

I feel like COVID has become like a marshmallow test for adults, where those who can manage their emotions and make rational decisions can set themselves up for greater long-term rewards. It looked for a while there like this could be a thing that gets “done”—that we would get a good vaccine into enough people, then incidence would decline so far it just goes away. That didn’t happen. We’re stuck with it for a forese…

> one can cry for the world that was, or one can get up and live in the world that is.

This is certainly beside the (your) point, but it's worth mentioning that mourning and grief (ie, to "cry for the world that was") is a crucial and possibly unskippable component to "live in the world that is."

They're certainly not mutually exclusive activities, and I'd love to see more STEM demographics recognize the former's necessity.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#886

Post by Thorentis »

scottbruin wrote: post #658
amatecha wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's some real irony that the people most likely to spread COVID -- those who are vaccinated and thus don't show symptoms -- are the ones "allowed" to engage in the most risky behaviour like large gatherings at restaurants, bars, theatres, sports arenas. Meanwhile those second-class citizens who are non-vaccinated won't take those risks and will also definitely know if they are sick, hilariously probably behaving…

I think you have that backwards. Asymptomatic infection with likely transmission (plus presyptomatic transmission) was a big characteristic of COVID since day one (and one of the reasons it’s so hard to contain compared to say, Ebola). Research seems to show that vaccinated people have shorter windows of spreading virus, and (at least before omicron variant) were much less likely to have virus in their nose without s…

Everybody, vaccinated or not, was in lockdown in many parts of the world last year. Which meant asymptomatic infections were far less likely to result in transmission.

Now, we have vaccinated people allowed to mingle and do "high risk" activities without being tested, despite the vaccine increasing the likelihood of asymptomatic infection. Unvaccinated people, who are more likely to be symptomatic, and therefore more likely to know if they have covid, cannot do those high risk activities.

So the irony is that the people more likely to be unknown carrier, have more freedoms and can therefore spread the virus more easily.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#887

Post by defaultprimate »

scottLobster wrote: post #649
defaultprimate wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

So I'll ask the same question that I've yet to receive a concrete response to: How long is long enough before you'll trust the vaccine? A solid number, in years please. Every anti-vaxxer I've asked that to has hand-waved the question away, because they know if they say something like "I need a minimum of 20 years before I'll trust a vaccine" they'll sound paranoid, which they are. Also their timespan is almost certai…

Long enough for there to be a sufficient amount of statistically significant data that demonstrably proves that mRNA techniques are safe with no deleterious long term side effects especially compared to the afflictions they are supposed to mitigate, and in spite of their disastrous results in animal trials over the past few decades. You don't need a specific time because we have specific ways of determining statistically significant effects over time and populations. The amount of data that currently exists is 0.

Non eradicating vaccines during a pandemic of disease with transmissibility as high as COVID are actually a terrible idea for the same reason not finishing your antibiotics is: It applies selective pressure that promotes immune escape and treatment resistance.

>By virtue of its distribution these vaccines have already been tested far more extensively than any other vaccine in history at the time of their release. If you don't trust this vaccine then you should never trust any future vaccine.

This is a new level of newspeak. Releasing without testing is testing. Slavery is freedom. War is peace.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#888

Post by wutbrodo »

astrange wrote: post #616
afavour wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I kind of regret even mentioning the effects of COVID in my original comment as I figured there would be a reply like yours and you're not wrong! But it wasn't the main point I was trying to make. My main point is that everyone just seems to have moved on from under 5s. We've adopted a stance of "vaxxed and done" for adults and older children and paid no attention to the vax trials for under 5s taking forever. It's b…

Covid was never thought to be risky for children, especially under 5s, even when we didn't have a vaccine. Omicron is much less risky than other kinds of covid. I saw one paper claiming the reason is that MMR vaccine gives children some protection against "severe" covid due to overlapping T-cells, but didn't check if it reproduced so wouldn't believe too much in that. (And I saw it on twitter from Dr Feigl-Ding who's…

> Covid was never thought to be risky for children, especially under 5s, even when we didn't have a vaccine.

This is likely correct, but

> Omicron is much less risky than other kinds of covid.

There's some indication (though no solid proof) that the jump in child hospitalizations is due to omicron being _more_ severe in children. The proposed mechanism is that its focus on the upper respiratory system instead of the lungs makes it less severe for us and worse for young children (in line with other childhood diseases that are generally taken somewhat seriously).

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#889

Post by Thorentis »

standardUser wrote: post #833
maerF0x0 wrote: post #762

Between the 2nd dose putting me in the ER with myocarditis which no one warned me about the risk of, and a $3500 medical bill due, being told I could be maskless and free if I got the "vaccine"[1], getting covid anyways and it being nbd, and then learning that the CDC redefined the meaning of "vaccine" for this treatment[2] (imo "immunotherapy" would be a more understandable word) -- yeah I'm done. I'm not risking an…

"The redefinition undermines what most would colloquially understand as a vaccine" It's very common for people outside of a profession to misunderstand terms from within that profession. That generally doesn't mean we get to redefine it on the fly. The Covid vaccines are vaccines because it is the correct and appropriate terminology to use within the fields that develop and administer vaccines. In terms of not being…

And yet there was very few attempts to remedy this mischaracterization from the onset. Government willfuly led people to believe that the covid vaccine would be like any other - it would inoculate the population, and all this would blow over.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#890

Post by daveoc64 »

nafix wrote: post #790
BoysenberryPi wrote: post #507

I don't want to talk about vaccines anymore. Whatever study people have to cherry pick or whatever beliefs you may hold, whatever your stance is, most people have made the decision on whether or not to be vaccinated. What I wish we focused on instead, is the medical system as a whole. We've been hearing stories everyday about how hospitals are on the brink of collapse. Why, in 2 years of this pandemic, have we not de…

Thank you. I've also been trying to get this across to other people as well. And here's the worst part. If and when another high-spread virus emerges in the future, there will not be a vaccine available at the beginning, which is also when hospital overwhelming is most critical. So we will be in the exact same situation. I can't believe no one is talking about improving the hospital infrastructure to handle the inevi…

Having enough excess capacity in healthcare systems to cope with potential future pandemics is too expensive. You'd need a lot more medical staff, plus more equipment and hospital bed capacity.

There would be a perception for a lot of the time that the cost of all of these things is wasteful - whether you're talking about public or private healthcare.

Not being able to say when the next pandemic might occur is going to make it a hard sell - how do you tell taxpayers or shareholders that you need to keep extra staff on retainer for something that may not happen for 100 years?

If you put these extra staff to use on other types of (non-essential) healthcare, then you're going to have to cancel all of that when the next pandemic happens. That will then lead to backlogs as operations are cancelled, screening isn't carried out etc. - and you're back to healthcare having to shut down.

Also, what do you plan for? Not every pandemic is the same.

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