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More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

theatlantic.com

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Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#871

Post by fullshark »

valachio wrote: post #714
01100011 wrote: post #665

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Welcome to the internet. Some of it stems from exhaustion. People sense any sort of deviation from the official dogma and they assume you're another idiot who they'll end up arguing with. It's sad. There is a lot of nuance to many of our cherished positions and discussion strengthens the truth but many people just get offended by genuine curiosity.

I remember in the early days of the Internet, people were saying how the Internet would encourage critical discussions and open fruitful debates. Now I think the Internet actually enforces groupthink and eradicates opposing narratives. Platforms like Twitter allows people to dox those with unorthodox ideas and behaviors and cancel them, which is basically a modern day version of "burnt at the stake". It seems that th…

It's now very easy to find someone across the planet that agrees you on 99.9% of things and talk to them instead of have that conversation with your neighbor who only agrees with you on 80% of things and might actually challenge your thinking face to face.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#873

Post by KittenInABox »

kube-system wrote: post #648
TimTheTinker wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know someone who almost quit a great job because they were mad about a vaccine mandate from their employer. [...] That is what failing the marshmallow test looks like. Or perhaps it's a matter of personal principle. Personal conscience and conviction used to be held sacred in the US ... to the point that conscientious objectors wouldn't be forced to fight in wars (they could be assigned to work as medics in Army…

> Personal conscience and conviction used to be held sacred in the US ... to the point that conscientious objectors wouldn't be forced to fight in wars (they could be assigned to work as medics in Army MASH units, for example, as my grandfather was in the Korean war). On the contrary, I think we're at the other extreme. There would be an uproar if people were even forced to work as medics today -- or to do nearly any…

My understanding is that this was only during the generation that started with the polio vaccine mandates. Because those children got it and were normalized to it, then it became normal subsequently. Prior to that there was indeed massive resistance and skepticism towards the polio vaccine and vaccinations broadly.

(This is also the cycle against seatbelting.)

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#874

Post by bun_at_work »

holbrad wrote: post #863
mleonhard wrote: post #828

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vaccines were never expected to stop the pandemic. They were expected to stop people from dying from the pandemic. They are doing that. So far, vaccines have saved 1.1M Americans from dying from covid and saved 10.3M Americans from needing hospital treatment for covid [0]. Preventable Covid-19 cases can lead to higher health and life insurance rates. Firing employees who refuse the vaccine is smart business. Vaccine…

"Vaccines were never expected to stop the pandemic." That's complete bullshit. You can find many examples of experts, governments and politicians claiming that's exactly what was likely going to happen. That was the message people were sold. For good reason, there are many diseases that have been wiped out by vaccination.

Do you have sources? Who said the vaccines were going to stop the pandemic, as opposed to death from covid?

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#875

Post by wutbrodo »

mizzack wrote: post #246
afavour wrote: post #129

I'm vaxxed. I'm boosted. I'd very much like to be done. But my children cannot be vaccinated. As a parent of a young kid it kind of feels like everyone has just moved on. I know folks in here will tell me that statistically speaking my children are unlikely to be hospitalized and so on, and I agree. But I know enough kids who got COVID and suffered the symptoms (e.g. a months-long scratchy cough) that I'm not going t…

You've got your anecdotes, and I've got mine. My 3 young kids all caught omicron last week. Each were lethargic for a day, had a minor sore throat, and were back to normal in a day or two. The flu last month was way scarier with high fevers. There's a lot of reason to be optimistic about omicron.

I've generally people to have been badly calibrated about the level of risk their children faced throughout Covid. But there's some indication that Omicron's reduced severity runs the other direction for children: the focus on the upper respiratory system vs the lungs apparently makes it less dangerous for us and more dangerous for them.

I haven't looked into it in enough detail to be making any categorical recommendation to parents, but it's worth pointing out that this is one case where omicron is not cause for optimism.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#876

Post by maerF0x0 »

honkycat wrote: post #861
maerF0x0 wrote: post #762

Between the 2nd dose putting me in the ER with myocarditis which no one warned me about the risk of, and a $3500 medical bill due, being told I could be maskless and free if I got the "vaccine"[1], getting covid anyways and it being nbd, and then learning that the CDC redefined the meaning of "vaccine" for this treatment[2] (imo "immunotherapy" would be a more understandable word) -- yeah I'm done. I'm not risking an…

85% of COVID-19 hospitalizations were among those not fully vaccinated.[0] 90% of people who are dying from covid are unvaccinated.[1] 10 in 100,000 people in your likely age range experience myocarditis.[2] However, yeah, if you have had a bad reaction before, you are likely to have another bad reaction. I'm sorry you went through that. > Yes it's 80% effective at eliminating _hospitalization_ but vaccinated people…

Your myocarditis source seems to be off?

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#877

Post by sqrt_1 »

zzzeek wrote: post #824
LouisSayers wrote: post #610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's research coming out that shows the vaccines are causing heart inflammation (1) in younger people, so I'd show some caution in getting kids vaccinated. I'm not sure how it compares to the effects of covid itself, just something to think about / read up on to make an informed decision. 1) https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0

flagged. the virus itself is much more dangerous in this regard, it's right in the study: > We estimated extra myocarditis events to be between 1 and 10 per million persons in the month following vaccination, which was substantially lower than the 40 extra events per million persons observed following SARS-CoV-2 infection. > Whilst myocarditis can be life-threatening, most vaccine-associated myocarditis events have b…

I posted this above - also from the study

"Subgroup analyses by age showed that the increased risk of events associated with the two mRNA vaccines was present only in those aged under 40 years."

This graph shows it: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0/figures/2

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#878

Post by bleuchase »

mleonhard wrote: post #828
toshk wrote: post #368

Of course people are done with it. Vaccinations were sold as the solution to the pandemic. Yet worldwide infections are going up at the same speed if not faster than before vaccinations. But no policy maker acknowledges this. They refer to the lowered death rate, or blame a new variant. But it means that policy that gave people more freedom because of their vaccination status are not having any significant effect on…

Vaccines were never expected to stop the pandemic. They were expected to stop people from dying from the pandemic. They are doing that. So far, vaccines have saved 1.1M Americans from dying from covid and saved 10.3M Americans from needing hospital treatment for covid [0]. Preventable Covid-19 cases can lead to higher health and life insurance rates. Firing employees who refuse the vaccine is smart business. Vaccine…

> Vaccines were never expected to stop the pandemic. They were expected to stop people from dying from the pandemic.

Unless you listened to Joe Biden, the President, who said this in October 2021:

“We know there is no other way to beat the pandemic than to get the vast majority of Americans vaccinated”

https://www.aol.com/news/biden-defends-vaccination-requireme...

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#879

Post by didibus »

holbrad wrote: post #863
mleonhard wrote: post #828

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vaccines were never expected to stop the pandemic. They were expected to stop people from dying from the pandemic. They are doing that. So far, vaccines have saved 1.1M Americans from dying from covid and saved 10.3M Americans from needing hospital treatment for covid [0]. Preventable Covid-19 cases can lead to higher health and life insurance rates. Firing employees who refuse the vaccine is smart business. Vaccine…

"Vaccines were never expected to stop the pandemic." That's complete bullshit. You can find many examples of experts, governments and politicians claiming that's exactly what was likely going to happen. That was the message people were sold. For good reason, there are many diseases that have been wiped out by vaccination.

This was a possibility at some point, but it required a very high number of people to get vaccinated quickly, before more variants. That did not happen, so the newer variants the vaccines had lower efficiency, which required even more people to be vaccinated, which is now seen as impossible, and so instead of hoping to get rid of Covid, now we hope to make it endemic, which is also achieved through more immunity, that which can come from either surviving Covid, or a vaccine. In the endemic state, most everyone has had immunity through a vaccine or recovering from Covid at least once. Covid is still around, since it evolves quickly to bypass immunity and spreads too fast to be eradicated, but as something that people get say yearly, or at a rate more similar to a cold or the flu, you get in this sort of balance where you're always immune enough to survive the next one and evolve your immunity along the way.

The issue is getting to this state with the least casualty, and vaccines are best for that.

I checked for other pandemics to see how they ended, and they all seem to end the same way, by reaching large herd immunity either through vaccination, or just everyone catching it and having the weak die off, and the survivors pass on immunity to the next generation.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#880

Post by maximus-decimus »

bondarchuk wrote: post #798
armchairhacker wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people don’t seem to realize just how good we handled the pandemic. Of course, we handled the pandemic awful compared to what we could have done. But in hindsight there’s always a better way. In early 2020 we significantly altered society, cancelling major events, moving things virtual, and creating new apps and services to handle the pandemic. Then over the course of late 2020/2021 we created more apps and services…

> Imagine what an outbreak like this would do in an earlier time. Probably we wouldn't have even noticed. Spanish Flu/black death is just no comparison.

People did die a lot, didn't they?
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