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U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

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Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

#121

Post by lupire »

tricky wrote: post #26

You might be asking, why a pig? I don't know, but forever ago I wrote software for a cardiovascular imaging lab and pigs were their primary test subjects. I was like, "why pigs?" and the PI was like, "Imaging-wise, pig hearts aren't too different from humans. Plus, we can give them a heart attack in the scanner and not go to jail. Some labs use dogs. I just can't do that."

Weird to have a a scientist behaving so irrationally regarding pigs vs dogs, especially because the pig was chosen for its likeness to a human.

Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

#122

Post by cwkoss »

dexwiz wrote: post #61
tricky wrote: post #26

You might be asking, why a pig? I don't know, but forever ago I wrote software for a cardiovascular imaging lab and pigs were their primary test subjects. I was like, "why pigs?" and the PI was like, "Imaging-wise, pig hearts aren't too different from humans. Plus, we can give them a heart attack in the scanner and not go to jail. Some labs use dogs. I just can't do that."

Pigs are really common in biomedical testing. They are physically a similar size and weight to humans. They also reach maturity in about 6 months. Much cheaper to raise than primates, and more likely to get approval for testing. My friends in biomed grad school named one of theirs cyber pig because it has about 30 different experiments ran on it before it was killed, and afterwards it was portioned out for further te…

Are pigs used in biomedical testing ever butchered for their meat?

Seems like we kill a lot of pigs every year anyways. Would be neat if we could get multiple birds from one stone - for experiments where there isn't a risk of making the meat dangerous at least.

Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

#123

Post by kiba »

323 wrote: post #100
kiba wrote: post #34

We're getting good at building artificial nonorganic heart, still a bit away from growing conventional hearts. I wonder how these future options intersect, whether one will win out over another, or we will be having hybrids? Electromagnetic motors work fine, but a big issue with them is the method of powering them and maybe biocompatibility issue. Normal organic hearts don't have this disadvantage but their downside…

An organic heart can self-repair itself, unlike the mechanical one. It's also "proven" to potentially last 100 years with no maintenance required.

A mechanical heart could in theory be more reliable and less susceptible to issues of biology.

Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

#124

Post by cwkoss »

woke_neoliberal wrote: post #35

The pig was modified to remove presentation of immunogenic sugars on the cell surface. Unfortunately, the recipient needs to be on immunosuppressants the rest of their life. This rekindles discussions back in school about chimeras... in order for the organs to be immunocompatible, the donor needs to be partially human. What % is too human to harvest for organs? I suppose it's still too soon to answer such questions,…

I think the nervous system is really the only part that I'd have ethical concerns about.

If they can grow a pig with a 99% human heart, I don't see why that should be more ethically concerning that harvesting a 100% pig heart.

Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

#125

Post by znpy »

zanethomas wrote: post #45
hwbehrens wrote: post #38

If pigs (or any animal) broaden the compatibility to other organs, what are the ethical implications for raising them with the intention to harvest their organs, if any? On one hand, we already raise pigs to kill and eat routinely, and (mostly) people don't care - is this any different than say, buying a pig heart at the market to eat? On the other hand, it does somehow feel different to me, perhaps because sharing o…

Eat all the bacon you want, get heart disease, get new heart, eat more bacon.

It's pigs all the way down

Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

#126

Post by Ensorceled »

dnautics wrote: post #69
Ensorceled wrote: post #47

Reminder: We've been replacing human heart VALVES with pig valves for a long time now. My grandmother lived for almost a decade after her replacement. https://www.heart-valve-surgery.com/learning/pig-valve-repla...

I could be wrong but I believe those valves are harvested for their cartilagenous (non-alive) components, their cells stripped, the valves throughly cleaned, and implanted in place. This is not quite the same as implanting an organ with live cells autonomously producing potential antigens on a daily basis

Correct. I'm aiming my comment more at the people asking about the moral ramifications ...

Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

#127

Post by Ensorceled »

livinglist wrote: post #58
Ensorceled wrote: post #47

Reminder: We've been replacing human heart VALVES with pig valves for a long time now. My grandmother lived for almost a decade after her replacement. https://www.heart-valve-surgery.com/learning/pig-valve-repla...

May I ask how much did it cost and did insurance cover it?

My grandmother was Canadian, as am I ... so nary a clue about the cost.

Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

#129

Post by version_five »

lupire wrote: post #121
tricky wrote: post #26

You might be asking, why a pig? I don't know, but forever ago I wrote software for a cardiovascular imaging lab and pigs were their primary test subjects. I was like, "why pigs?" and the PI was like, "Imaging-wise, pig hearts aren't too different from humans. Plus, we can give them a heart attack in the scanner and not go to jail. Some labs use dogs. I just can't do that."

Weird to have a a scientist behaving so irrationally regarding pigs vs dogs, especially because the pig was chosen for its likeness to a human.

People have co-evolved with dogs as companions for a long time. And many people have fond memories of dogs and experience with them as part of a family. This is not generally true of pigs even if their hearts are closer to ours. Even as someone who doesn't like dogs, I find the idea of harming one (even with a good reason) worse than harming a pig.

Re: U.S. surgeons transplant pig heart into human patient

#130

Post by grumple »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #90
monkeybutton wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about growing human organs in pigs? Like the pigoons from Oryx and Crake. http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/content.asp?Bnum=1177

Then you have the reverse problem of the pigs rejecting the human organs, I suppose.

I guess you could immunosuppress the pigs until maturity, then transplant the organ?
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