Two startups tried to catch up to makers of advanced computer chips, and failed

Post by panabee » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 11:10 PM UTC

chx wrote: post #15

spamizbad wrote: post #5

Not surprised: $2.3B is chump change in semiconductor manufacturing especially if you're starting from scratch. Double that, add a zero, and wait 5-7 more years.

So 50B? That's nowhere near what you need. Last year both TSMC and Intel announced they are spending a hundred billion each on new fabs (TSMC in April, Intel in July) and they have all the R&D already and good relationship with ASML (and both own a few percent of it, too). But the US banned ASML from selling to China so you need to catch up with ASML and Intel/TSMC at the same time. Now, I don't know when ASML starte…

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 11:13 PM UTC

chx wrote: post #15

spamizbad wrote: post #5

Not surprised: $2.3B is chump change in semiconductor manufacturing especially if you're starting from scratch. Double that, add a zero, and wait 5-7 more years.

So 50B? That's nowhere near what you need. Last year both TSMC and Intel announced they are spending a hundred billion each on new fabs (TSMC in April, Intel in July) and they have all the R&D already and good relationship with ASML (and both own a few percent of it, too). But the US banned ASML from selling to China so you need to catch up with ASML and Intel/TSMC at the same time. Now, I don't know when ASML starte…

Post by bsedlm » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 11:14 PM UTC

jeffreyrogers wrote: post #9

bsedlm wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They have to put in a lot of time and resources to rediscover closely guarded secrets that are almost impossible to reverse engineer yes, they have to repeat all that work, they have to solve all those solved problems again because companies that solved the problems won't share their solutions.

Why would a company share its trade secrets? It's one of the few differentiators left to most companies. Not to mention the national security arguments.

Post by code_biologist » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 11:20 PM UTC

panabee wrote: post #21

chx wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So 50B? That's nowhere near what you need. Last year both TSMC and Intel announced they are spending a hundred billion each on new fabs (TSMC in April, Intel in July) and they have all the R&D already and good relationship with ASML (and both own a few percent of it, too). But the US banned ASML from selling to China so you need to catch up with ASML and Intel/TSMC at the same time. Now, I don't know when ASML starte…

why haven't alternatives emerged to ASML to help drive down the cost of building new fabs? do you know what the cost breakdown is when building fabs?

Post by quantum_state » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 11:22 PM UTC