Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The next generation in vaccine technology is the US Army / Walter Reed Medical Center broad-spectrum vaccine. This should protect against all COVID and SARS variants.[3] That's in Phase I safety testing, with about 75 volunteers. If that works, the problem is solved. Sure, until the next variant. The problem of the spread was mostly solved by vaccines before Omicron, at least for people who got the vaccines. Then O…
It ends when people say it ends. There will always be natural disasters, whether it's earthquakes or viruses. If it's a new virus, yes people are going to die, yes hospitals are going to be overwhelmed (in fact I would be surprised if hospitals aren't overwhelmed when a new virus hits, which just means that hospital was over-funded and has too many idle staff). The virus was a creation of nature (conspiracy theories…
More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’
771–780 of 1001 posts
Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’
#772Between the 2nd dose putting me in the ER with myocarditis which no one warned me about the risk of, and a $3500 medical bill due, being told I could be maskless and free if I got the "vaccine"[1], getting covid anyways and it being nbd, and then learning that the CDC redefined the meaning of "vaccine" for this treatment[2] (imo "immunotherapy" would be a more understandable word) -- yeah I'm done. I'm not risking an…
I agree, it's now known as a "rare" side effect, but I wasn't aware either until after I got the vaccine.
How did you know something was wrong? I think a lot of people (including myself) feel heart pain after the vaccine but aren't sure if it's worth going to a doctor about it.
Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’
#773Earlier quoted context omitted.
What way to beat the virus? Clearly not vaccines as they aren't that great... Clearly not lockdowns as as soon as we give that up the virus hits... We aren't beating it in anyway... Maybe it is time to accept the reality.
I've been telling people to "get it, and get over it" since March 2020. The best thing anyone can do is live a healthy lifestyle, and the majority will be fine.
It's a somewhat more reasonable stance since omicron seeing as our ability to prevent spread is greatly reduced and infection severity is also down, but I haven't been convinced completely yet. The current healthcare "collapse" is a real enough consequence to make me think twice.
Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’
#774Earlier quoted context omitted.
What way to beat the virus? Clearly not vaccines as they aren't that great... Clearly not lockdowns as as soon as we give that up the virus hits... We aren't beating it in anyway... Maybe it is time to accept the reality.
I've been telling people to "get it, and get over it" since March 2020. The best thing anyone can do is live a healthy lifestyle, and the majority will be fine.
Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’
#775Earlier quoted context omitted.
Quoted post unavailable.
So I'll ask the same question that I've yet to receive a concrete response to: How long is long enough before you'll trust the vaccine? A solid number, in years please. Every anti-vaxxer I've asked that to has hand-waved the question away, because they know if they say something like "I need a minimum of 20 years before I'll trust a vaccine" they'll sound paranoid, which they are. Also their timespan is almost certai…
Chronic lead poisoning, mesothelioma (cancer usually caused by abestos), lung cancer (cigarettes), various types of cancer caused by Agent Orange, and cancers caused by DDT take years-to-decades to manifest. Asking for 20 years is completely reasonable and supported by a dozen other substances that do have long-term side effects on that timescale.
> Also their timespan is almost certainly long enough that any pandemic would be long over by the time they'd trust it, essentially precluding vaccines as tool during a pandemic if everyone were to adopt their perspective.
Almost everyone that I've heard (except for a lone hardcore anti-vaxxer) who has expressed unease at the safety of the mRNA technology in general, not the specific application of it to SARS-CoV-2 - which is understandable, as there's no long-term trial data available about it. Several said that they were waiting to take the Novavax vaccine, which uses an older technology (subunit) that has been in use for decades.
So, assuming that the majority of people uneasy about taking the vaccine adopt that stance above, then no, there's no "precluding vaccines as tool during a pandemic" because the criteria is whether a particular vaccine technology has been tested for decades or not, not the particular payload.
> By virtue of its distribution these vaccines have already been tested far more extensively than any other vaccine in history at the time of their release. If you don't trust this vaccine then you should never trust any future vaccine.
Testing a vaccine with one million people for one year does not translate into ten years of study for one hundred thousand people. You cannot predict long-term effects with short-term data, and long-term effects are what these people are worried about. Nobody except hardline anti-vaxxers (who make up a tiny tiny minority of the population that I'm not discussing here) wants every single payload+technology combination to be tested for decades before use.
> Well my wife and I trusted the actual data instead of internet speculation, as well as the data showing what COVID can potentially do to fetuses, and we got pregnant well after both being fully vaccinated.
I'm reminded of a line from a sibling comment: "you get 0 applause from me if you randomly guess a “what if” correctly" - and without actual data as to whether mRNA vaccines have any long-term side effects (which is the issue under discussion), you're just guessing.
Finally, I'll preempt one of your talking points "We don't know what the long-term side effects of covid are either, yet, so why not pick the less risky of the two?" Because that is a personal choice - so it's up to the individual, not the government to impose.
It's generally a good strategy that, given ambiguous information, you still make the best use of what you have and pick the least risky option (i.e. vaccines) - however, in the specific case of vaccines in the US, the fact that the US government has shielded vaccine manufactures from legal liability means that there's significant downside in case there are long-term side effects.
If you want more people to take the vaccine, you should be campaigning hard to get that law repealed. I don't see anyone railing against anti-vaxxers doing that, so the more likely explanation is that these people are merely using the vaccine as an attempt to increase government control.
Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’
#776Young males with history of heart arrhythmia should be vaxxed.
90% of pregnant women should be not be vaxxed.
Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’
#777Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It looked for a while there like this could be a thing that gets “done”—that we would get a good vaccine into enough people, then incidence would decline so far it just goes away... That didn’t happen. We’re stuck with it for a foreseeable future. Well, one can cry for the world that was, or one can get up and live in the world that is. Whats the magic number? There are places like New York that have 95% over 18 wi…
> There are places like New York that have 95% over 18 Per your link, not NYCity, and not NYState. Maybe some regions of NY have that number? Also, people under 18 exist. Vaccinating adults-only is never going to create herd immunity.
Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’
#778I'm vaxxed. I'm boosted. I'd very much like to be done. But my children cannot be vaccinated. As a parent of a young kid it kind of feels like everyone has just moved on. I know folks in here will tell me that statistically speaking my children are unlikely to be hospitalized and so on, and I agree. But I know enough kids who got COVID and suffered the symptoms (e.g. a months-long scratchy cough) that I'm not going t…
I am with you on all of this, with one small, slightly hopeful note. My under-5 is enrolled in the Pfizer study, and they are not starting over from scratch. The existing cohort is going to receive a third dose at >2 months past their last dose (starting at the end of this month, probably), and then immunogenicity will be reassessed. I am incredibly frustrated that pfizer and the fda have been so slow to roll the vac…
can someone please explain to me the thought process of enrolling your child in an experimental medical trial for a medicine they probably don't even need?
Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’
#779Between the 2nd dose putting me in the ER with myocarditis which no one warned me about the risk of, and a $3500 medical bill due, being told I could be maskless and free if I got the "vaccine"[1], getting covid anyways and it being nbd, and then learning that the CDC redefined the meaning of "vaccine" for this treatment[2] (imo "immunotherapy" would be a more understandable word) -- yeah I'm done. I'm not risking an…
> myocarditis which no one warned me about the risk of I agree, it's now known as a "rare" side effect, but I wasn't aware either until after I got the vaccine. How did you know something was wrong? I think a lot of people (including myself) feel heart pain after the vaccine but aren't sure if it's worth going to a doctor about it.
after EKG, xrays, bloodwork, a big scare and such the doctors put me on ibuprofen and it subsided after another ~3 days
Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’
#780Earlier quoted context omitted.
RSV is more dangerous than COVID-19 for most small children. We don't shut down society because of RSV. https://www.medscape.com/answers/971488-177692/what-is-the-p...
> RSV is more dangerous than COVID-19 for most small children. Children don’t exist in isolation. They’re phenomenally good at spreading every infection to the rest of the household and everywhere else they go. Trying to focus on children's outcomes and ignoring all of the second-order effects is dishonest. Children don’t live alone.
This really is _the_ important point of contention.
Phrased differently: Does viral spread in one cohort drive the viral spread in another?
And can policy be designed to drive wedges between cohorts to reduce such co-factors?
That being said, as it stands, the data doesn't support your claim. It seems child activity is largely independent of spread among adults.
https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/72/12/e1146/6024998
15 June 2021, Meta-analysis
> Children are Infrequently Identified as the Index Case of Household SARS-CoV-2 Clusters
> In analysis of the cluster index cases ... only 3.8% were identified as having a pediatric index case.
> These pediatric cases only caused 4.0% of all secondary cases, compared with the 97.8% of secondary cases that occurred when an adult was identified as the index case in the cluster.
> Clusters where the asymptomatic/symptomatic status of the contact cases was not described were excluded from the analysis. Even with this broader definition, 18.5% children were identified as the index case in the household clusters.