More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’ • Hacker News Board

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#651

Post by TheMagicHorsey » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 8:58 PM UTC

afavour wrote: post #129

I'm vaxxed. I'm boosted. I'd very much like to be done. But my children cannot be vaccinated. As a parent of a young kid it kind of feels like everyone has just moved on. I know folks in here will tell me that statistically speaking my children are unlikely to be hospitalized and so on, and I agree. But I know enough kids who got COVID and suffered the symptoms (e.g. a months-long scratchy cough) that I'm not going t…

There seems to be very strong data to suggest Covid is a non-issue for children under 5.

I think if you are vaxed and boosted, and your older children are vaxed, and you don't live with an unvaxed vulnerable person, you can now safely continue your life activities ... mask if it doesn't inconvenience you.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#652

Post by runako » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 9:00 PM UTC

rajup wrote: post #625

neuronic wrote: post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it so hard for you people to understand that we shut down society because the health system is stressed at unforeseen levels? I mean just ask your fellow emergency workers how their life is right now.

Stressed by the numerous asymptomatic hypochondriacs you mean? [1] I have no idea what these asymptomatic folks are wasting hospital resources for [1] https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/coronavirus/ny-covid-cases-t...

The major hospitals in my (Top 10 American) metro area are currently doing patient "diversion." In practice, this means that they are not accepting most trauma patients, elective surgeries like cancer removals are being delayed, and patient care for non-Covid conditions is being impacted. This is primarily due to the hospitals being at/over capacity. These hospitals are not admitting hypochondriacs, the folks taking up the beds are sick and need to be hospitalized.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#653

Post by sys_64738 » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 9:01 PM UTC

mizzack wrote: post #246

afavour wrote: post #129

I'm vaxxed. I'm boosted. I'd very much like to be done. But my children cannot be vaccinated. As a parent of a young kid it kind of feels like everyone has just moved on. I know folks in here will tell me that statistically speaking my children are unlikely to be hospitalized and so on, and I agree. But I know enough kids who got COVID and suffered the symptoms (e.g. a months-long scratchy cough) that I'm not going t…

You've got your anecdotes, and I've got mine. My 3 young kids all caught omicron last week. Each were lethargic for a day, had a minor sore throat, and were back to normal in a day or two. The flu last month was way scarier with high fevers. There's a lot of reason to be optimistic about omicron.

What about "long COVID"? There are some studies suggesting sudden spikes in kids becoming diabetic after having COVID. These long term health impacts will take years to be known and fully understood. Getting COVID is to be avoided at all costs, IMO.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#654

Post by 01100011 » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 9:01 PM UTC

drewg123 wrote: post #26

I think a lot of this depends on the typical severity of Omicron (and future variants). I'm vaccinated and boosted. I wear a mask in public. I don't go out much. I do travel fairly regularly (fly maybe 1-2x per month). I finally got Covid last week, likely on a flight. I had ~3 days of mild cold-like symptoms (sore throat, runny nose, congestion, very low grade fever that approached 101F). It was far less severe than…

If Omicron is as mild as it initially appeared, we're back to normal by summer 2022. My wild assed guess is that if death rates don't spike by February it will be increasingly difficult for the government and health officials to justify a continuation of current recommendations.

I am triple vaxxed and will happily wear a mask for the rest of my life, but we are in the midst of a slow moving train of economic turmoil brought about by COVID and the resulting decisions(which I'm not arguing with. some were stupid but hindsight is 20/20). We will soon need to get the world back to as normal of a state as we can because we will need the economic benefits. We will need to get our kids back in school and socializing. I know many people are scarred and will not want to emerge from their caves but without compelling justification(such as a new variant which is actually dangerous) we will return to normal soon.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#655

Post by pdimitar » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 9:02 PM UTC

I enjoy such balanced pieces and I think in times of hugely divisive topics like with COVID we need more of them! My big thanks and compliments to the author.

> We have no idea what the effects of Omicron on long COVID will be, but evidence of lingering symptoms should make us wary of just letting tens of millions of people get needlessly infected.

That... reads a little bit like what your typical hypochondriacs say. We have lingering symptoms of other illnesses as well (like bronchi-pneumonia).

Mathematically speaking, all hypochondriacs are technically correct, but the same applies for many other things that people just don't think about. There is no such thing as "zero percent risk".

In the end it's all about (a) the risk % and (b) whether that % is acceptable but alas, I don't think humanity will soon agree on actual numbers related to COVID. That's the crux and the core of the entire segregation issue.

It boils down to: if COVID truly kills 3% of people then that's horrifying; but if it kills 0.03% then why bother at all?

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I sympathize a little more with the "vaxxed and done" group. Endlessly worrying about risks that get smaller and smaller as herd immunity is nearing completion does not seem to be worth shutting down society for (if the risk is indeed getting smaller but random bits and pieces of news make me think this is the case). And we're also likely mortally wounding the economy so much that the kids whose physical health we are so worried about right now will have to deal with our mess and suffer severe mental health problems for decades (maybe a next Great Depression even?). I think that's a worthy discussion to have.

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"We need to keep the measures for the kids"

I hear you but I don't think people will ever arrive at an universal consensus on this topic. Even if the lockdowns last forever a lot of cultures around the world will still not change. E.g. where I live kids having a scratchy cough merits a pat on the head and insistence of drinking hot tea with lemon and honey and a few pills, and the matter is considered done (and 99% of the time it really actually is done).

On the other end of the spectrum we have parents that give me murderous looks if I sneeze in the mall at a 5m distance from their kid. Sorry but it gets a little absurd at this point. I get it, you get over-protective when you are a parent but you should also abide by the society you live in. If you are that worried then maybe don't live in the city? I definitely have not gone out just to murder your kid so maybe loosen up a little. We're all in this together.

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Many things in this world carry some risk and we just accept it and don't think about it. And I literally mean thousands such things. As COVID starts looking like a minor threat more and more with time (also illustrated by the "flurona" thing lately; it almost sounds like some medical professionals are ready to call COVID "a flu"?) we have to start asking ourselves if we aren't perpetuating extreme measures for a dwindling threat.

Continuous reassessment and readjusting is key. Maybe it's time to take a hard long honest look on how things are today. As a starting point, many doctors are saying that Omicron is more infectious but that a lot of their patients barely feel it.

IMO we shouldn't get distracted by segregation and point fingers at each other. That solved absolutely nothing so far and it's not realistic to expect it to change in the future.

Let's work on getting some actual numbers and see what we should do next?

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#656

Post by abrahamepton » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 9:02 PM UTC

TimTheTinker wrote: post #376

snowwrestler wrote: post #133

I feel like COVID has become like a marshmallow test for adults, where those who can manage their emotions and make rational decisions can set themselves up for greater long-term rewards. It looked for a while there like this could be a thing that gets “done”—that we would get a good vaccine into enough people, then incidence would decline so far it just goes away. That didn’t happen. We’re stuck with it for a forese…

> I know someone who almost quit a great job because they were mad about a vaccine mandate from their employer. [...] That is what failing the marshmallow test looks like. Or perhaps it's a matter of personal principle. Personal conscience and conviction used to be held sacred in the US ... to the point that conscientious objectors wouldn't be forced to fight in wars (they could be assigned to work as medics in Army…

> Or perhaps it's a matter of personal principle. Personal conscience and conviction used to be held sacred in the US ... to the point that conscientious objectors wouldn't be forced to fight in wars

It's a great argument, so long as "rejecting a vaccine during a pandemic" meets the same moral tests as "opposing war". In fact it does not, and so this "personal principle" is quite silly and actively harmful.

The government has not done anything in mandating vaccination that it has not done, over and over again, with total societal unanimity. Until some people decided there was political hay to be made with a bad, dumb argument about "personal principle" and now tens of thousands of people are dead for no good reason.

It's super dumb, and the "personal principle" argument fails every test you could throw at it.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#657

Post by stjohnswarts » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 9:03 PM UTC

I am a gen-x firmly in this camp. I feel I've done my part for nearly 2 years. Unless omicron starts decimating people I'm also pretty much done except for future boosters as recommended by CDC and research. I am burned out. I am hanging out with friends who are in the same boat as me. I will respect masking up with people who want to do that, but that's much more rare these days with friends and family. Life is full of risk and we just have to weight the situation and go from there. For me, currently, that is I don't bother with masks and count on my immune system and vax.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#658

Post by scottbruin » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 9:03 PM UTC

amatecha wrote: post #534

toshk wrote: post #368

Of course people are done with it. Vaccinations were sold as the solution to the pandemic. Yet worldwide infections are going up at the same speed if not faster than before vaccinations. But no policy maker acknowledges this. They refer to the lowered death rate, or blame a new variant. But it means that policy that gave people more freedom because of their vaccination status are not having any significant effect on…

There's some real irony that the people most likely to spread COVID -- those who are vaccinated and thus don't show symptoms -- are the ones "allowed" to engage in the most risky behaviour like large gatherings at restaurants, bars, theatres, sports arenas. Meanwhile those second-class citizens who are non-vaccinated won't take those risks and will also definitely know if they are sick, hilariously probably behaving…

I think you have that backwards. Asymptomatic infection with likely transmission (plus presyptomatic transmission) was a big characteristic of COVID since day one (and one of the reasons it’s so hard to contain compared to say, Ebola). Research seems to show that vaccinated people have shorter windows of spreading virus, and (at least before omicron variant) were much less likely to have virus in their nose without symptoms.

From a policy perspective, it’s not clear that unvaccinated individuals will stay home with symptoms since some percentage of them seem to think is not real, not a real threat, etc.

Edit: summary article that covers some of this (though keep in mind science is still working through this and each variant changes things) https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2021/new-data-on-covid-19-trans...

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#659

Post by Animats » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 9:04 PM UTC

pavon wrote: post #606

Animats wrote: post #541

We still don't know if the omicron variant leads to "long COVID".[1] We'll know some time in February. That has a big effect on what to do next. Omicron-specific vaccines are in test. Moderna's should be out in Fall 2022. Pfizer claims March 2022.[2] The next generation in vaccine technology is the US Army / Walter Reed Medical Center broad-spectrum vaccine. This should protect against all COVID and SARS variants.[3]…

Last I read, Moderna was also claiming as early as March 2022 (but possibly Q2) for their Omicron-specific booster[1]. Has there been other announcements pushing that back to the fall? [1] https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/...

https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/589040-moderna-ceo-say...

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#660

Post by jat850 » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 9:05 PM UTC

JSavageOne wrote: post #432

thomascgalvin wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are a number of factors at play. One, we've greatly reduced the risk of COVID through vaccines. This is the primary thrust of the article; if you've vaccinated, you're very unlikely to have serious consequences. Two, we're fatigued. You just can't be constantly vigilant for two or three years without something breaking. This compounds point one. We don't, as the article mentions, know what kind of relat…

Even if you're not vaccinated, you're extremely unlikely to have serious consequences unless you're elderly and/or have comorbidities. The infection fatality rate of COVID19 (which can only be estimated) is something like 0.20%. "Long COVID" is extremely rare and severely overstated.

Show your math on 0.2%. This does not appear to hold true for any country I can think of off the top of my head. US and Canada are somewhere around 1.3-1.5% last I checked.