More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’ • Hacker News Board

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#641

Post by soperj » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 8:52 PM UTC

valachio wrote: post #576

gilbetron wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're inventing a past that didn't exist. Were this pandemic to strike in the 70s or 80s (or earlier), we would undoubtedly have given people little choice to be vaccinated, but we also probably wouldn't have forced people nearly as much. Today we are stuck with these people running around talking about their freedom, when one of the main reasons for government is public health.

I think if this pandemic struck in the 70s or 80s, it would have been shook off as a moderately more dangerous version of the flu, and there would have been no lockdowns or anything like that. Life would go on as normal until natural herd immunity is achieved.

We had smallpox for centuries, same with measles, mumps, rubella, polio, etc etc. AIDS came about in the 80s. How's that natural herd immunity for AIDS going?

You would have ended up with full hospitals everywhere and people dying in the streets, and the Delta variant way before a vaccine was ready if we didn't do lockdowns.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#642

Post by jhgb » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 8:54 PM UTC

blendergeek wrote: post #99

oauea wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What violence?

@torstenvl: > What level of state-sponsored violence is justifiable to further reduce that risk? @oauea: > What violence? torstenvl was specifically referring to state vaccine "mandates". Any state mandate must be enforced through violence or it has no effect. Lest you believe that state mandates do not require violence, consider what happens if people refuse the vaccine. You can order them to get daily tests, but wh…

> Any state mandate must be enforced through violence or it has no effect.

I don't see how that is really true. The state can, for example, refuse to provide you services if you're not vaccinated. If you're not allowed to enter a government building while unvaccinated without a justification, so as not to endanger the civil servants in that building, I'd hardly call that "violence".

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#643

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 8:55 PM UTC

ketzo wrote: post #220

wonderwonder wrote: post #124

I am one of those, triple vaxxed and done. CDC has now said that the majority of those that died had 4+ co-morbidities. They have also indicated that getting vaccinated does not reduce your ability to spread the virus. So if that is the case, there is no longer a real need to vilify the unvaxxed. CDC statement appears to indicate that the primary reason for people dying is poor physical health prior to infection. Wit…

> there is no longer a real need to vilify the unvaxxed I very, very much disagree with this. Unvaccinated people have a much higher rate of severe illness that requires hospitalization. Filling up hospitals unnecessarily kills people, and delays preventative care. People who are voluntarily unvaxxed without a medical necessity are, to be clear, 1) categorically stupid 2) responsible for the injury and death of other…

[deleted]

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#644

Post by asabjorn » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 8:55 PM UTC

syshum wrote: post #536

jorblumesea wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you spread the virus, so it's not just about your own personal experience.

Welcome to living in a society, Some how we flipped the script on what freedom means. If you do not accept the risk of coming in contact with things like the Common Cold, Flu, and now COVID, then you need to structure your life to be hermit, not have society bow to your fears

The panic over the Covid pandemic has been a great leap forward in this transformation of Western societies away from a representative republic or democracy.

In the technocracy we are transforming into those that happen to occupy the territory are under the care, custody, and control of the administrative state and then there are those who are noncompliant. So from that viewpoint it is perfectly logical to deny the things the administrative state provide to the noncompliant, because in the technocratic administrative state the people are granted privileges instead of the state deriving its representative power from the people. Read more here [1].

[1] https://www.takimag.com/article/prisoners-of-the-new-order/

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#645

Post by 01100011 » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 8:55 PM UTC

BobbyJo wrote: post #544

BoysenberryPi wrote: post #507

I don't want to talk about vaccines anymore. Whatever study people have to cherry pick or whatever beliefs you may hold, whatever your stance is, most people have made the decision on whether or not to be vaccinated. What I wish we focused on instead, is the medical system as a whole. We've been hearing stories everyday about how hospitals are on the brink of collapse. Why, in 2 years of this pandemic, have we not de…

We aren't short on 'resources', we are short on doctors and nurses. It doesn't matter how much money you throw at things, the number of doctors isn't going to change drastically. You can pay them 10x and the number won't change. We only have so many medical schools, and so many people willing to throw themselves on the sword to get through them. Nurses are a little more flexible in that more money might mean more nur…

> It doesn't matter how much money you throw at things, the number of doctors isn't going to change drastically.

I don't think that's true. If being a doctor had the same work:pay ratio as being a SW dev I think you'd have more smart people choosing that career. Health regulations and extra procedures certainly helped to discourage employment as well, but I think pay would help.

> I don't see hospitals needing the same capacity in 3 years

The baby boomers are just starting to enter their mid 70s. Sure, it may not reach COVID-surge levels, but they are going to need a lot of health care.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#646

Post by rhino369 » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 8:55 PM UTC

twic wrote: post #457

claytongulick wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting that you phrase it that way, because I was thinking exactly the same thing, but from the opposite direction. I caught covid early, and while (for me) it was a nasty bug, I recovered with nothing more than a lingering cough for several weeks. Against enormous pressure I decided not to get vaccinated. Everything I read supported that natural immunity is at least as protective as the vaccine, and most s…

> Everything I read supported that natural immunity is at least as protective as the vaccine That is the exact opposite of what i have read. One random example: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7044e1.htm

Tiny sample size compared to the one from Israel that found the opposite.

And the CDC essentially admits the vaccines no longer do much to prevent spread (due to waning protection and new variants). Maybe previous natural immunity has seen the same reduction, but you can't assume that.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#647

Post by georgekv » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 8:56 PM UTC

afavour wrote: post #435

mizzack wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've got your anecdotes, and I've got mine. My 3 young kids all caught omicron last week. Each were lethargic for a day, had a minor sore throat, and were back to normal in a day or two. The flu last month was way scarier with high fevers. There's a lot of reason to be optimistic about omicron.

I kind of regret even mentioning the effects of COVID in my original comment as I figured there would be a reply like yours and you're not wrong! But it wasn't the main point I was trying to make. My main point is that everyone just seems to have moved on from under 5s. We've adopted a stance of "vaxxed and done" for adults and older children and paid no attention to the vax trials for under 5s taking forever. It's b…

The biggest reason the under 5s vaccine is taking so long is that they don't suffer severe enough symptoms that they can easily test the efficacy of the virus. The same issue was there with the 5-11s but pharma, CDC, & FDA just glossed over that to approve the vaccines.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#648

Post by kube-system » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 8:58 PM UTC

TimTheTinker wrote: post #376

snowwrestler wrote: post #133

I feel like COVID has become like a marshmallow test for adults, where those who can manage their emotions and make rational decisions can set themselves up for greater long-term rewards. It looked for a while there like this could be a thing that gets “done”—that we would get a good vaccine into enough people, then incidence would decline so far it just goes away. That didn’t happen. We’re stuck with it for a forese…

> I know someone who almost quit a great job because they were mad about a vaccine mandate from their employer. [...] That is what failing the marshmallow test looks like. Or perhaps it's a matter of personal principle. Personal conscience and conviction used to be held sacred in the US ... to the point that conscientious objectors wouldn't be forced to fight in wars (they could be assigned to work as medics in Army…

> Personal conscience and conviction used to be held sacred in the US ... to the point that conscientious objectors wouldn't be forced to fight in wars (they could be assigned to work as medics in Army MASH units, for example, as my grandfather was in the Korean war).

On the contrary, I think we're at the other extreme. There would be an uproar if people were even forced to work as medics today -- or to do nearly anything at all beyond their own self-interest.

I was forced to be vaccinated as a child to go to school, and there were no exceptions for personal convictions. There was also no uproar. Everyone did it because it was normal and there wasn't any legitimization of "alternative" information.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#649

Post by scottLobster » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 8:58 PM UTC

defaultprimate wrote: post #533

snowwrestler wrote: post #133

I feel like COVID has become like a marshmallow test for adults, where those who can manage their emotions and make rational decisions can set themselves up for greater long-term rewards. It looked for a while there like this could be a thing that gets “done”—that we would get a good vaccine into enough people, then incidence would decline so far it just goes away. That didn’t happen. We’re stuck with it for a forese…

Quoted post unavailable.

So I'll ask the same question that I've yet to receive a concrete response to: How long is long enough before you'll trust the vaccine? A solid number, in years please. Every anti-vaxxer I've asked that to has hand-waved the question away, because they know if they say something like "I need a minimum of 20 years before I'll trust a vaccine" they'll sound paranoid, which they are. Also their timespan is almost certainly long enough that any pandemic would be long over by the time they'd trust it, essentially precluding vaccines as tool during a pandemic if everyone were to adopt their perspective.

By virtue of its distribution these vaccines have already been tested far more extensively than any other vaccine in history at the time of their release. If you don't trust this vaccine then you should never trust any future vaccine.

All your "what if"s remind me of the "what if it causes fertility issues?" that swept the internet last year despite zero valid supporting data. Well my wife and I trusted the actual data instead of internet speculation, as well as the data showing what COVID can potentially do to fetuses, and we got pregnant well after both being fully vaccinated. Thus far the baby appears healthy (genetic testing clean, strong heart beat, correct size). So it turns out the experts were right on that one, and it's more directly relevant than your Vioxx example.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#650

Post by swayvil » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 8:58 PM UTC

mizzack wrote: post #246

afavour wrote: post #129

I'm vaxxed. I'm boosted. I'd very much like to be done. But my children cannot be vaccinated. As a parent of a young kid it kind of feels like everyone has just moved on. I know folks in here will tell me that statistically speaking my children are unlikely to be hospitalized and so on, and I agree. But I know enough kids who got COVID and suffered the symptoms (e.g. a months-long scratchy cough) that I'm not going t…

You've got your anecdotes, and I've got mine. My 3 young kids all caught omicron last week. Each were lethargic for a day, had a minor sore throat, and were back to normal in a day or two. The flu last month was way scarier with high fevers. There's a lot of reason to be optimistic about omicron.

Ignore the evidence of your senses. Reality comes from experts and consensus.