More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’ • Hacker News Board

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#541

Post by Animats » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 8:19 PM UTC

We still don't know if the omicron variant leads to "long COVID".[1] We'll know some time in February. That has a big effect on what to do next.

Omicron-specific vaccines are in test. Moderna's should be out in Fall 2022. Pfizer claims March 2022.[2]

The next generation in vaccine technology is the US Army / Walter Reed Medical Center broad-spectrum vaccine. This should protect against all COVID and SARS variants.[3] That's in Phase I safety testing, with about 75 volunteers. If that works, the problem is solved.

[1] https://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/view/-omicron-the-pand...

[2] https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-deta...

[3] https://www.defenseone.com/technology/2021/12/us-army-create...

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#542

Post by armchairhacker » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 8:20 PM UTC

Melatonic wrote: post #247

I know everyone is tired of this shit but I just want to remind everyone of one thing: This is the FIRST time humanity has come together and actually come up with a way to beat a virus WHILE a global pandemic is still ongoing. At no other time in history have we even had the option of a solid way to protect ourselves like we do now. I think instead of focusing on how awful the past few years have been this is an impo…

people don’t seem to realize just how good we handled the pandemic. Of course, we handled the pandemic awful compared to what we could have done. But in hindsight there’s always a better way.

In early 2020 we significantly altered society, cancelling major events, moving things virtual, and creating new apps and services to handle the pandemic. Then over the course of late 2020/2021 we created more apps and services and developed new technologies to treat Covid-19.

In just 1 year, we created and started widely distributing a vaccine which, while it doesn’t completely prevent the virus, makes it very mild for the vast majority of people. So far, at the second-year mark, over 2 billion people have been vaccinated. Along with monoclonal antibodies and other technology, we’ve significantly lowered the death rate, hospitalization rate, and likely the risk of long covid.

Imagine what an outbreak like this would do in an earlier time. You don’t really have to imagine because it’s happened before - the Spanish Flu outbreak and the Bubonic plague. Look at the population (not raw count because our population is much larger) of casualties those diseases caused. We failed to prevent covid-19 infecting everyone, but with vaccines and modern medical care we have made the infections significantly less harmful.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#543

Post by felix318 » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 8:20 PM UTC

amatecha wrote: post #534

toshk wrote: post #368

Of course people are done with it. Vaccinations were sold as the solution to the pandemic. Yet worldwide infections are going up at the same speed if not faster than before vaccinations. But no policy maker acknowledges this. They refer to the lowered death rate, or blame a new variant. But it means that policy that gave people more freedom because of their vaccination status are not having any significant effect on…

There's some real irony that the people most likely to spread COVID -- those who are vaccinated and thus don't show symptoms -- are the ones "allowed" to engage in the most risky behaviour like large gatherings at restaurants, bars, theatres, sports arenas. Meanwhile those second-class citizens who are non-vaccinated won't take those risks and will also definitely know if they are sick, hilariously probably behaving…

All those public health decisions are taken behind closed doors, we are never told the full story. I suspect the point of the vaccine passports is really to protect the unvaccinated.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#544

Post by BobbyJo » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 8:20 PM UTC

BoysenberryPi wrote: post #507

I don't want to talk about vaccines anymore. Whatever study people have to cherry pick or whatever beliefs you may hold, whatever your stance is, most people have made the decision on whether or not to be vaccinated. What I wish we focused on instead, is the medical system as a whole. We've been hearing stories everyday about how hospitals are on the brink of collapse. Why, in 2 years of this pandemic, have we not de…

We aren't short on 'resources', we are short on doctors and nurses.

It doesn't matter how much money you throw at things, the number of doctors isn't going to change drastically. You can pay them 10x and the number won't change. We only have so many medical schools, and so many people willing to throw themselves on the sword to get through them.

Nurses are a little more flexible in that more money might mean more nurses, but only up to a point.

In either case, throwing a ton more people into a long term career to deal with a short term problem (I don't see hospitals needing the same capacity in 3 years that they do for the next wave) will cause other problems down the road.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#545

Post by blululu » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 8:20 PM UTC

TimTheTinker wrote: post #376

snowwrestler wrote: post #133

I feel like COVID has become like a marshmallow test for adults, where those who can manage their emotions and make rational decisions can set themselves up for greater long-term rewards. It looked for a while there like this could be a thing that gets “done”—that we would get a good vaccine into enough people, then incidence would decline so far it just goes away. That didn’t happen. We’re stuck with it for a forese…

> I know someone who almost quit a great job because they were mad about a vaccine mandate from their employer. [...] That is what failing the marshmallow test looks like. Or perhaps it's a matter of personal principle. Personal conscience and conviction used to be held sacred in the US ... to the point that conscientious objectors wouldn't be forced to fight in wars (they could be assigned to work as medics in Army…

Historically conscientious objector status was not just given out to anyone who asked for it. In general you needed to be an active member of a religious community with clear theological beliefs about war specified well in advance of the war. Even the Quakers didn't get a free pass - they still had to serve the country in some non-violent capacity as medics or the like.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#546

Post by philote » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 8:21 PM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #248

ya_throw wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that until young kids can get vaccinated, it is not safe enough to remove shutdown protocols for preschools? Parent of 2 very young kids here btw - it's been brutal, I feel your pain. Frankly, our kids get enough other diseases from nursery that a months-long scratchy cough doesn't sound too terrifying.

The challenge is the lack of data on long-term effects of COVID. Preliminary studies have linked it to cognitive declines [1], diabetes [2], and chronic fatigue [3]. And while death from COVID in a preschooler is about a 1-in-100,000 occurrence, long COVID and other chronic outcomes seem to be much more common. I've heard figures of about 5% or 1 in 20. Few parents would willingly sign their preschooler (or themselve…

Just curious, have you seen any studies or evidence on whether omicron has caused the micro-clotting that seems to be the cause of some of these long-term effects? Everyone seems to be saying the effects of omicron are not as bad, but that talk seems to be limited to short-term effects, not the longer-term ones you brought up.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#547

Post by tanseydavid » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 8:21 PM UTC

kimmeld wrote: post #495

mizzack wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've got your anecdotes, and I've got mine. My 3 young kids all caught omicron last week. Each were lethargic for a day, had a minor sore throat, and were back to normal in a day or two. The flu last month was way scarier with high fevers. There's a lot of reason to be optimistic about omicron.

Quoted post unavailable.

>> That’s why we are still in this pandemic. Too many selfish assholes.

Are you really saying that 'suggesting optimism' is equivalent to being a "selfish asshole"? I do not understand your application of logic here.

Are you also saying that a particular course-of-action would have resulted in an "end to the pandemic" by this point in time?

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#548

Post by nradov » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 8:22 PM UTC

mjevans wrote: post #428

ren_engineer wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the bigger problem is that their initial selling point for the vaccine was "get your 2 shots and everything goes back to normal". Many people grudgingly got it despite some hesitancy and now have even less trust of the government now that the goal posts are shifting yet again

With the Alpha variation of the virus that would have been good enough. The study numbers showed someone vaccinated and exposed to Alpha had such a low risk of spread that even while fighting off the virus they were still safe 'enough' to be around. If we had gotten 80% (some magic number between 70% and 95% I pulled out of nothing) of the US adult population vaccinated, and quarantine locked down the borders we coul…

The USA has never had secure borders before. How could anyone believe that would be possible now? Have you ever actually been to the borders?

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#549

Post by rhino369 » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 8:22 PM UTC

holbrad wrote: post #380

bko wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It looked for a while there like this could be a thing that gets “done”—that we would get a good vaccine into enough people, then incidence would decline so far it just goes away... That didn’t happen. We’re stuck with it for a foreseeable future. Well, one can cry for the world that was, or one can get up and live in the world that is. Whats the magic number? There are places like New York that have 95% over 18 wi…

It's almost like the COVID vaccines don't work very well to prevent spread. (It clearly helps against being hospitalised)

Then you can't blame continued high cases on the unvaccinated and you can't expect the covid risk to go away.

The at-risk should get used to wearing an N95 mask, but I'm done complying with mitigation measures (I'll get future boosters if they actually do anything for me).

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#550

Post by DiggyJohnson » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 8:22 PM UTC

throwaway894345 wrote: post #255

thomascgalvin wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there are a number of factors at play. One, we've greatly reduced the risk of COVID through vaccines. This is the primary thrust of the article; if you've vaccinated, you're very unlikely to have serious consequences. Two, we're fatigued. You just can't be constantly vigilant for two or three years without something breaking. This compounds point one. We don't, as the article mentions, know what kind of relat…

> Third, a large portion of the population is in denial about their own levels of risk. If there was a 1% chance of dying every time you drove a car, or even a 1% chance of dying every time you got into a car accident, there would be panic in the streets, no pun intended. But a lot of people round a 1% chance of dying from COVID down to zero. I don't think you and I differ much in our broad conclusions on covid, but…

This is an excellent distinction because it denies all-encompassing judgement in the instance where one individual sees another who isn't taking as much precaution ("oh typical anti-masker"; judging others for interacting when you have been self-isolating - but probably not as well as you think).