More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’ • Hacker News Board

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#471

Post by lambdaba » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 8:04 PM UTC

q1w2 wrote: post #383

titzer wrote: post #113

I've gone through cycles with this. Mostly I am done arguing. I hate arguing about this. It's just more of the culture war shit that so many different media sources love pushing to keep people amped up. I double vaxxed and boosted. Stopped wearing a mask for the most part, but with Omicron I started wearing a mask again because I just don't want this stupid virus. I'm healthy and would probably not have a symptomatic…

I'm just happy to have a good excuse to wear a mask on an airplane. I always used to get sick after flights.

I wonder how much of this is the mask-wearing in the airplane and how much is simply now nobody travels with a sniffle anymore (maybe a slight exaggeration, but pre-covid you few would stay home with respiratory symptoms if they could physically manage it).

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#472

Post by armchairhacker » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 8:04 PM UTC

nevinera wrote: post #393

From conversations with various people (and not any kind of meaningful study), it seems to me that there is a qualitatively different experience of this situation for people that naturally think about things all the time. For my wife, having to skip the occasional event that she'd like to go to isn't a big deal, but having to constantly think about how risky each behavior is and make a conscious decision weighing tha…

i’m young, vaxxed, and i still think about the implications of covid when going to events. It goes kind of like this:

- Is this a public area where immunocompromised people have to be (e.g. grocery stores, doctors offices?) If so then I wear a mask

- Is this an area which isn’t really safe for immunocompromised people anyways (e.g. restaurants, gyms). If so then i don’t wear a mask unless they require it or someone asks me

- Am I hanging out at a friends house or venue with other friends, all young and presumably vaccinated? If so then i don’t take any precautions, even if it’s a large tightly-packed gathering the risk of any serious infection is minimal and the virus is spreading anyways

People need to understand that “stay safe and weigh the risks” does not mean “take unnecessary precautions and constantly worry”. It takes 2sec to realize that hanging out with vaccinated friends and family and strangers is completely fine, and maybe i should bring a mask in my pocket just in case i need to call a Lyft or stop somewhere. It’s basically automatic

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#473

Post by claytongulick » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 8:04 PM UTC

spenczar5 wrote: post #310

claytongulick wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting that you phrase it that way, because I was thinking exactly the same thing, but from the opposite direction. I caught covid early, and while (for me) it was a nasty bug, I recovered with nothing more than a lingering cough for several weeks. Against enormous pressure I decided not to get vaccinated. Everything I read supported that natural immunity is at least as protective as the vaccine, and most s…

If you don’t mind, why not get vaccinated? Like, what is the downside? I know this is a dangerous topic, especially on the internet with strangers, so feel free to just not respond - that would be understandable. But I am curious to hear your thought process.

It is a dangerous topic (which is weird, right?) And I post on HN under my real name. But it's a genuine question, and I'm going to try to give you a complete response, because I think open discussion on this is important, even though I know that it's an unpopular opinion.

It comes down to three things:

1) the studies I've reviewed, which overwhelmingly support the strength of natural immunity

2) the adverse reactions that I've seen personally (I personally know more people that have had more severe reactions from the vaccine than I know who have had severe outcome from covid - purely anecdotal, but hard for me to ignore), and from VAERS (truly frightening), and

3) the very strange authoritarian approach the government and media have taken with this. I don't know of any vaccine or drug trial that would have survived the number of adverse effect that have been reported without being pulled. We keep seeing strange things like the CEO of Reuters being on the board of Pfizer as [1] mentions. But it's immediately flagged on HN. You can't even discuss it. Medical opinions from highly qualified doctors and health experts being silenced, accounts being canceled and removed from FB, Google, etc... frankly, it has me creeped out. I've never seen anything like it.

The "othering" of people who make informed choice about vaccination and decide against it is extraordinary. It's a global phenomenon. You can see it in some of the responses to my comment here on HN, even. Take a look at the downvotes for my comment - just for saying that my natural immunity seems to be robust. There don't seem to be many people willing to engage in an open and honest dialog about this, other opinions are silenced by any means available.

Maybe it's because I'm older and cranky, maybe it's because of a deep distrust of centralized authority, but the more someone pushes me to do something, anything really, the more I tend to resist.

When I couple that with the risk/reward evaluation and the advice of my doctor, all things things come together to make me decide not to do it.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29879165

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#474

Post by ASinclair » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 8:04 PM UTC

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #17

I'm fully vax'd and boosted. I'll probably continue to get boosted in the future. All that said? I feel like the government did a really bad job communicating who needs the booster and when. First, they gave vague recommendations to immunocompromised folks. They said everyone else probably didn't need it. Then they said well, ok for older folks. Then this new omni variant comes out and they're badgering everyone to g…

> There would have been so much less confusion if they were consistent with their communication from the start, and did a phased rollout of the booster just like they did with the original vaccine.

Biden called for a booster dose for everyone in September. The CDC and the FDA didn't agree.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#475

Post by NaturalPhallacy » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 8:04 PM UTC

Melatonic wrote: post #247

I know everyone is tired of this shit but I just want to remind everyone of one thing: This is the FIRST time humanity has come together and actually come up with a way to beat a virus WHILE a global pandemic is still ongoing. At no other time in history have we even had the option of a solid way to protect ourselves like we do now. I think instead of focusing on how awful the past few years have been this is an impo…

I'm not convince we did beat it.

For decades people would ask, "why is there no vaccine for the cold or flu like smallpox, measles, mumps, rubella, and chicken pox?" and the answer was that they were fast evolving corona viruses and you cannot vaccinate for those.

Then suddenly we have one this time. But it's efficacy drops - according to Pfizer's own trial - to ~47% after six months. And people "double vaxxed and boosted" still get it. And still die from it.

So...we still don't have vaccines for those it seems to me. It doesn't matter how many people call them that, they don't provide immunity like vaccines do.

Big pharma did get super rich off of them. And you can't sue them if they kill your spouse. So there's that at least I guess.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#476

Post by rhino369 » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 8:05 PM UTC

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #345

nradov wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RSV is more dangerous than COVID-19 for most small children. We don't shut down society because of RSV. https://www.medscape.com/answers/971488-177692/what-is-the-p...

> RSV is more dangerous than COVID-19 for most small children. Children don’t exist in isolation. They’re phenomenally good at spreading every infection to the rest of the household and everywhere else they go. Trying to focus on children's outcomes and ignoring all of the second-order effects is dishonest. Children don’t live alone.

It's society's job to protect children, not the other way around.

Closing schools while opening bars is huge failure of leadership.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#477

Post by jorblumesea » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 8:05 PM UTC

agensaequivocum wrote: post #366

afavour wrote: post #129

I'm vaxxed. I'm boosted. I'd very much like to be done. But my children cannot be vaccinated. As a parent of a young kid it kind of feels like everyone has just moved on. I know folks in here will tell me that statistically speaking my children are unlikely to be hospitalized and so on, and I agree. But I know enough kids who got COVID and suffered the symptoms (e.g. a months-long scratchy cough) that I'm not going t…

My whole family had covid last February including my three young children including one under 1. The children had the mildest symptoms. If you are worried about your children getting covid then I hope you never let near a car as they are much more likely to die in a car crash than covid. If you want to continue locking your self up fine, I don't care. Just don't try to force others to do the same.

But you spread the virus, so it's not just about your own personal experience.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#478

Post by barbazoo » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 8:05 PM UTC

40four wrote: post #407

afavour wrote: post #129

I'm vaxxed. I'm boosted. I'd very much like to be done. But my children cannot be vaccinated. As a parent of a young kid it kind of feels like everyone has just moved on. I know folks in here will tell me that statistically speaking my children are unlikely to be hospitalized and so on, and I agree. But I know enough kids who got COVID and suffered the symptoms (e.g. a months-long scratchy cough) that I'm not going t…

To be fair, the long term of effects of the vaccines are still very unclear. For adults and children. There are concerning reports regarding serious complications that tend to not get talked about very much in the media I chose to vaccinate myself. I don’t have kids, but I’m not sure it would be a given that I would vaccinate them yet. I think I would want to have a better understanding of the risks. Sorry you’re in…

According to [1] Mr Malone said "mRNA vaccine technology I created" which is not true as far as I can find tell. He did work on mRNA technology decades ago but didn't invent mRNA vaccines. He also states that "The first is that a viral gene will be injected into your children's cells. This gene forces your child’s body to make toxic spike proteins.". What does that even mean, a "viral gene"? Toxic spike proteins? Sounds like fear mongering to me given how it's worded.

Furthermore he states that "These proteins *often* cause permanent damage in children’s critical organs, including -Their brain and nervous system -Their heart and blood vessels, including blood clots -Their reproductive system, and -This vaccine can trigger fundamental changes to their immune system" There is absolutely no data supporting any of this as far as I can find.

Should we trust this person?

[1] https://globalcovidsummit.org/news/live-stream-event-physici...

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#479

Post by ensan » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 8:05 PM UTC

I’m under 30, healthy, and have no kids.

I got both doses of Pfizer as soon as I could last year. But until a more severe (than Omicron) variant arrives, I’m not planning to get a booster.

That calculus may be different for others and I totally understand. In fact, I encouraged my parents and grandparents to get the booster as soon as they could.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#480

Post by jat850 » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 8:06 PM UTC

40four wrote: post #407

afavour wrote: post #129

I'm vaxxed. I'm boosted. I'd very much like to be done. But my children cannot be vaccinated. As a parent of a young kid it kind of feels like everyone has just moved on. I know folks in here will tell me that statistically speaking my children are unlikely to be hospitalized and so on, and I agree. But I know enough kids who got COVID and suffered the symptoms (e.g. a months-long scratchy cough) that I'm not going t…

To be fair, the long term of effects of the vaccines are still very unclear. For adults and children. There are concerning reports regarding serious complications that tend to not get talked about very much in the media I chose to vaccinate myself. I don’t have kids, but I’m not sure it would be a given that I would vaccinate them yet. I think I would want to have a better understanding of the risks. Sorry you’re in…

Respectfully, Dr. Malone's entire platform is contrarianism. He is opportunistically acting on his own behalf in my belief.

Recently, he published an article highlighting a noted increase in insurance claims (death and disability) in Indiana. He then intentionally implied a link and placed blame on the vaccine.

However, he took no care whatsoever to do any thoughtful analysis of the data before presenting the conclusions he did. He did not even attempt to perform a comparative analysis between Indiana and other states based on vaccination rates. This is low-hanging-fruit simplicity that could have either disproven his claim or supported it - if he cared to. He did not.

This is not the type of information I expect to see come from someone supposedly claiming to be on the right side of science here.

And yet it remains heavily influential, reaching millions of people via Twitter, Joe Rogan, and other mediums, reducing critical analysis to trivial opinion masking as expertise.