More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’ • Hacker News Board

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#291

Post by hitpointdrew » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 7:34 PM UTC

nwiswell wrote: post #207

wonderwonder wrote: post #124

I am one of those, triple vaxxed and done. CDC has now said that the majority of those that died had 4+ co-morbidities. They have also indicated that getting vaccinated does not reduce your ability to spread the virus. So if that is the case, there is no longer a real need to vilify the unvaxxed. CDC statement appears to indicate that the primary reason for people dying is poor physical health prior to infection. Wit…

Some of your points have validity, but three are borderline dangerous misinformation: - The majority of those who died WITH THE VACCINE had 4+ co-morbidities. The virus is still very dangerous to the unvaccinated - The vaccine does indeed reduce your propensity to spread the virus, although it doesn't eliminate the risk. - The reason for lockdowns is not to make the virus "go away". It is to control the impact on the…

The only miss information here is your comment.

>the virus is still very dangerous to the unvaccinated

According to gallup (which I hope we can agree is not some sort of alt-right outlet) the risk of an unvaccinated person needing to be hospitalized if they get covid is 0.89%. https://news.gallup.com/opinion/gallup/354938/adults-estimat...

That is insanely low. That is just the risk of hospitalization, the % of those that are hospitalized that actually die from (not with) covid is even lower, which is a key distinction that your Reuters article doesn't make. Most hospitals are required to test patients for covid (if they are admitted), even if they are being admitted for something else (like a broken leg) if they come back positive then they show up in the stats even if they exhibit no covid symptoms and require no to little treatment from the hospital for covid.

The healthcare system is not remotely being overrunning by covid, it only appears that way because of these scary, missleading, numbers.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#292

Post by hutzlibu » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 7:34 PM UTC

nopenopenopeno wrote: post #217

Insanity wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tangentially, I recently moved to Canada and was surprised by the lack of quality healthcare.. Literally could not believe some walk ins have paper files and use fax, plus finding a GP apparently is a months long quest. Visiting a specialist took ages, and I wouldn’t say it was the best / most modern infrastructure there either. (And I went in downtown Toronto, must be so much worse for more remote places I guess). I…

American doctors all use fax machines and “heavy paper files” to transmit referrals. Who cares? An enormous amount of working Americans have no healthcare at all. Would you prefer that?

Maybe with some modernisation the system would work better and therefore cheaper, so more people could afford it.

In theory.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#293

Post by majormajor » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 7:34 PM UTC

xkbarkar wrote: post #233

stuckonempty wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They have also indicated that getting vaccinated does not reduce your ability to spread the virus That is not correct. Vaccination does reduce, but does not eliminate, transmission of the virus “ We found that both the BNT162b2 and ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccines were associated with reduced onward transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from index patients who became infected despite vaccination.” https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.105…

look at data for iceland, 92% of the adult population and spread is mainly among the double vaccinated. Triple is lower but that is expected to wear off ( if Isreal is to be beleiveied ). https://www.covid.is/data . No, vaccination dos not reduce spread of omicron. Not even a little. It does do a fantastic job of reducing hospitalisations among delta infected.

The Iceland data is interesting and "14-day incidence per 100.000 by age and vaccination status" is different from the California data, where case rate per 100K is still, as of 12/26 numbers, much higher among unvaccinated (no breakdown for 2vax vs 2vax+booster). https://covid19.ca.gov/state-dashboard/#postvax-status

Iceland also has a higher vaccination rate, I would be very interested in demographic breakdowns of the unvaccinated there vs in California. Is the Iceland group much more atypical in terms of how often they leave their house, say? Is the California group possibly just much more boosted (the Iceland numbers show that the boosted group has still less Covid than the unvaccinated group stil) - but actually, that doesn't seem like it, because that ratio is still far higher than the CA one. Though... even your own link for data on boosted adults in Iceland contradicts your "not even a little" statement.

Actually I bet it's just a small number problem. Iceland has a population of 366K. 8% of that population is just under 30K. California has a population of over 39 million. Much more significant sample for unvaccinated people in CA.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#294

Post by zzbzq » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 7:34 PM UTC

turrican wrote: post #165

smachiz wrote: post #98

I don't get it. It takes 10 minutes to get a booster. It's such a non-event.

If you are one of the lucky few that doesn’t get unpleasant side effects for 24-48 hours afterwords, this may be true. I am not, and anecdotally nobody close to me is either. It’s not a pleasant experience that I want to repeat ad infinitum. Particularly if it’s not even going to stop the current C19 variation.

Have you tried just taking a Tylenol?

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#295

Post by Robotbeat » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 7:34 PM UTC

azinman2 wrote: post #96

haswell wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There would have been so much less confusion if they were consistent with their communication from the start I think it's worth considering a different framing: > "There would have been so much less confusion if COVID variants and transmission/hospitalization/death rates remained consistent from the start" It's easy to call out the communication, and don't get me wrong, it surely could have been better. But I often…

Exactly. It’s quite an unfair criticism, and it keeps being applied retroactively to thinks like masking, lockdowns, etc. It’s like people expect a government to have completely knowledge from day 1 of a new virus and all of its mutations across all of time. Throw in politicization of it, tons of non-mutual “facts” going around, a heap of anecdotes, and you’ve got a communications nightmare.

I agree overall, but I do think the CDC should’ve known better with masking, at least not to discourage it like they did originally in spite of lots of experience in Asia.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#296

Post by nsxwolf » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 7:35 PM UTC

celtain wrote: post #181

Mikeb85 wrote: post #66

I'm vaxxed and mostly done. Already contracted Covid, have 2 vaccines, I'm down to get a booster every year or two, at my own leisure. Having vaccines mandated every 6 months is not something I'm OK with and to be honest, it feels a lot like the government trying to deflect from the fact healthcare isn't OK (at least in my home country, Canada). There's always been risks to life and this feels more like governments a…

Why is there much difference between getting a booster every 6 months rather than every 12-24 months? Compared to lockdowns or even just mask mandates, both booster schedules seem like a pretty minor inconvenience given the pandemic-halting benefits.

These pandemic-halting benefits seem to be illusory with delta and omicron. The drug companies seem to have no particular motivation to release updated vaccines.

If I'm going to be forced to keep current on a shot if I want to be employed or enter buildings, it should come with some form of justification that is periodically evaluated. If it doesn't work, the inconvenience should not exist. If the virus mutates and risk falls below some standard, the inconvenience should not exist.

I have been taking off my shoes for 20 years at the airport. I understand that you can never eliminate the possibility of someone putting a bomb in their shoe, so we just have to do this forever. But viruses change, and I'd at least like someone to acknowledge there should be a goal that I won't be forced to do this also in 20 years.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#297

Post by yonaguska » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 7:35 PM UTC

celtain wrote: post #181

Mikeb85 wrote: post #66

I'm vaxxed and mostly done. Already contracted Covid, have 2 vaccines, I'm down to get a booster every year or two, at my own leisure. Having vaccines mandated every 6 months is not something I'm OK with and to be honest, it feels a lot like the government trying to deflect from the fact healthcare isn't OK (at least in my home country, Canada). There's always been risks to life and this feels more like governments a…

Why is there much difference between getting a booster every 6 months rather than every 12-24 months? Compared to lockdowns or even just mask mandates, both booster schedules seem like a pretty minor inconvenience given the pandemic-halting benefits.

If you had an adverse reaction to any of the vaccines, every booster is a scary prospect, more so if they are more frequent. People would rather take an occasional risk over a frequent risk.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#298

Post by AlexandrB » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 7:35 PM UTC

csdvrx wrote: post #160

wonderwonder wrote: post #124

I am one of those, triple vaxxed and done. CDC has now said that the majority of those that died had 4+ co-morbidities. They have also indicated that getting vaccinated does not reduce your ability to spread the virus. So if that is the case, there is no longer a real need to vilify the unvaxxed. CDC statement appears to indicate that the primary reason for people dying is poor physical health prior to infection. Wit…

> Omicron is essentially impossible to avoid at this point short of locking yourself in a room and having everything delivered to your front door. The risks are known and its time to trust people to weigh those risks and make their own decisions. As viruses can remain active on surfaces, unless you irradiate the deliveries with a UV lamp (and do it again after unboxing them, since there may be viruses on the actual i…

> As viruses can remain active on surfaces, unless you irradiate the deliveries with a UV lamp (and do it again after unboxing them, since there may be viruses on the actual item) even that would not be enough.

Cases of COVID-19 spreading through fomites (particles on a surface) are extremely rare[1][2] and COVID-19 has a short lifespan on cardboard[3]. Just leaving deliveries somewhere for a day is probably enough to stop transmission.

[1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34136133/

[2] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-95479-5

[3] https://www.sciencealert.com/how-long-does-coronavirus-last-...

> Similarly, on cardboard, no viable SARS-CoV-2 particles could be found after 24 hours, or SARS-CoV-1 after eight.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#299

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 7:35 PM UTC

deltarholamda wrote: post #118

sophacles wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what you're saying is the government should have predicted the future perfectly, and given Post-Omicron guidelines months before it emerged?

The government said, at first, that nobody needed to go out and buy masks, because they won't do any good. And then the government said you had to wear a mask or you couldn't enter into buildings. Now, the reasoning for the former was that they were concerned about PPE supplies, but that doesn't change the fact they reversed themselves very shortly, and expected people to forget the earlier messaging. The government…

[deleted]

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#300

Post by ketzo » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 7:35 PM UTC

cm2187 wrote: post #256

ketzo wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there is no longer a real need to vilify the unvaxxed I very, very much disagree with this. Unvaccinated people have a much higher rate of severe illness that requires hospitalization. Filling up hospitals unnecessarily kills people, and delays preventative care. People who are voluntarily unvaxxed without a medical necessity are, to be clear, 1) categorically stupid 2) responsible for the injury and death of other…

> Unvaccinated people have a much higher rate of severe illness that requires hospitalization. Filling up hospitals unnecessarily kills people, and delays preventative care. Not if they already had covid or are young and healthly. I would agree with your statement with the qualifier "unvaccinated people that are over 60 or have comorbidity".

You are, unfortunately, incorrect, at least about the "young and healthy" part.

Unvaccinated people of all ages are significantly more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 than vaccinated people of the same age group [1].

12-34 year olds are 10 times more likely to be hospitalized.

Even if the absolute numbers are very low for young and healthy people – even if that's 0.01% instead of 0.001% of cases – that is an absolutely unacceptable amount of people to be putting into hospital beds when they could just get a motherfucking shot instead.

[1] Page 3 of https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Documents/1600/coronavirus/... Study published 3 days ago.