Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

theatlantic.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

271–280 of 1001 posts

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#271

Post by Melatonic »

khazhoux wrote: post #45
peregren wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vaccine may have kept you out of ICU. It doesn't seem logical to change to a "let the chips fall where they may" based on this experience.

He/she didn't deny that the vaccine kept him out of ICU. But once vaxxed+boosted, what more realistically can we do? I mean sure, let's maybe avoid coughing into each other's open mouths. But apart from that, Omicron seems to be so contagious, we're all bound to get it eventually unless we literally lock ourselves at home for the next 3 years.

In many countries in Asia it was already considered polite to wear a mask if you got sick. Got a cold and coughing everywhere? Wear a mask so your not spewing droplets all over your coworkers and people at the store.

I am hoping that trend continues in the western world but who really knows

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#272

Post by bumby »

I found this discussion between 3 MDs to be one of the more enlightened ones on the subject:

https://peterattiamd.com/covid-19-current-state-omicron/

One of the big takeaways for me, personally, was that the push for boosters may be, in part, due to measuring the wrong thing, namely circulating antibodies as a measure of resistance to infection. Even when antibody levels dropped weeks/months later, it seems people still maintained B-cell and T-cell immunity.

From the link:

"A Johns Hopkins study in pre-print shows the importance of T-cell immunity in protection from COVID

-This is an under recognized part of the immune system and absent from much COVID discussion

-T cell immunity is solid against Omicron as it is for Delta"

P.S. - Here's my chance at one of my favorite dad jokes: Why have scientists been researching ants to battle COVID? Because they all have ant-y bodies... :-)

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#273

Post by nradov »

nodamage wrote: post #136
wonderwonder wrote: post #124

I am one of those, triple vaxxed and done. CDC has now said that the majority of those that died had 4+ co-morbidities. They have also indicated that getting vaccinated does not reduce your ability to spread the virus. So if that is the case, there is no longer a real need to vilify the unvaxxed. CDC statement appears to indicate that the primary reason for people dying is poor physical health prior to infection. Wit…

> CDC has now said that the majority of those that died had 4+ co-morbidities. This is in reference to a specific study that followed 1.2M fully vaccinated individuals and found that 28 of the 36 deaths had at least 4 high-risk factors ( https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7101a4.htm ). They are not referring to the unvaccinated who still have a much higher risk of hospitalization and death.

Back in 2020 when everyone was unvaccinated the CDC issued this statement: “For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death.”

https://acdis.org/articles/news-94-patients-who-died-covid-1...

Fortunately the vaccines and other improved therapies are now pretty effective at preventing deaths even among high risk patients.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#275

Post by wonderwonder »

nwiswell wrote: post #207
wonderwonder wrote: post #124

I am one of those, triple vaxxed and done. CDC has now said that the majority of those that died had 4+ co-morbidities. They have also indicated that getting vaccinated does not reduce your ability to spread the virus. So if that is the case, there is no longer a real need to vilify the unvaxxed. CDC statement appears to indicate that the primary reason for people dying is poor physical health prior to infection. Wit…

Some of your points have validity, but three are borderline dangerous misinformation: - The majority of those who died WITH THE VACCINE had 4+ co-morbidities. The virus is still very dangerous to the unvaccinated - The vaccine does indeed reduce your propensity to spread the virus, although it doesn't eliminate the risk. - The reason for lockdowns is not to make the virus "go away". It is to control the impact on the…

"The virus is still very dangerous to the unvaccinated" Absolutely, I very much agree with this but at this point in time everyone has access to the data and there is not much ore that can be done to make people choose to get vaccinated. Forcing people to choose to be vaccinated or lose their jobs when the primary person the vaccinated are endangering is themselves is not a good policy. People should be allowed to make their own choices at this point. No matter what we do the virus is here to stay.

"The vaccine does indeed reduce your propensity to spread the virus, although it doesn't eliminate the risk." agreed, but at this point Omicron is so incredibly transmissible that I think everyone is going to get it and it is impossible to eliminate all the potential infection vectors. I have to come down on the side of bodily autonomy at this point. If the virus was as deadly as ebola I would likely change my mind but at this point with the severity of omicron, I have landed here.

"The reason for lockdowns is not to make the virus "go away". It is to control the impact on the healthcare system." This is a very good point but there is no way to practically implement this in the current political environment. If we implemented a lockdown, we would still be telling the poorest among us, those we call essential that they still have to go to work to support the rest of us. In addition, there is just no way that states like Texas or Florida are going to agree to a lockdown. Are we willing to risk armed conflict over this? Personally I am not.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#276

Post by haswell »

jatone wrote: post #117
haswell wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There would have been so much less confusion if they were consistent with their communication from the start I think it's worth considering a different framing: > "There would have been so much less confusion if COVID variants and transmission/hospitalization/death rates remained consistent from the start" It's easy to call out the communication, and don't get me wrong, it surely could have been better. But I often…

incorrect. during unpredictable situations it makes it MORE important to be consistent in communication. consistent communication could have been: boosters are recommended, we'll open them to relevant age groups in the future. though honestly they should have opened boosters to everyone in september and called it done. we knew then everything we needed to know. which are: 1. risks of the boosters. 2. average declines…

The impossibility of this is embedded in your opening paragraph.

> during unpredictable situations

Unpredictable: adjective - "not able to be predicted"

> it makes it MORE important to be consistent in communication

Consistent: adjective - "unchanging in nature, standard, or effect over time"

If you wish to deliver a message that is accurate during a time that cannot be predicted and actively changes, you cannot do so and remain consistent without starting to misrepresent the truth.

If you wish to deliver a message that is consistent during a time that cannot be predicted and actively changes, you cannot do so and deliver current/accurate information.

In essence, your options are:

1. Be accurate/informative, but the message will change as the situation changes.

2. Be consistent, but the message either a) cannot contain any meaningful guidance or b) will be wrong

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#277

Post by vkou »

xkbarkar wrote: post #233
stuckonempty wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They have also indicated that getting vaccinated does not reduce your ability to spread the virus That is not correct. Vaccination does reduce, but does not eliminate, transmission of the virus “ We found that both the BNT162b2 and ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccines were associated with reduced onward transmission of SARS-CoV-2 from index patients who became infected despite vaccination.” https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.105…

look at data for iceland, 92% of the adult population and spread is mainly among the double vaccinated. Triple is lower but that is expected to wear off ( if Isreal is to be beleiveied ). https://www.covid.is/data . No, vaccination dos not reduce spread of omicron. Not even a little. It does do a fantastic job of reducing hospitalisations among delta infected.

> look at data for iceland, 92% of the adult population and spread is mainly among the double vaccinated.

If getting vaccinated reduced your odds of spreading the virus by 90%, and 92% of the population were double-vaccinated, then the majority of the spread would be...

Among, and by the double-vaccinated. (8.28% vs 8%)

Most people that die in car crashes are wearing seatbelts, but you'd be a fool to not wear one. Just like you'd be foolish to not get vaccinated.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#278

Post by [deleted] »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #66

I'm vaxxed and mostly done. Already contracted Covid, have 2 vaccines, I'm down to get a booster every year or two, at my own leisure. Having vaccines mandated every 6 months is not something I'm OK with and to be honest, it feels a lot like the government trying to deflect from the fact healthcare isn't OK (at least in my home country, Canada). There's always been risks to life and this feels more like governments a…

[deleted]

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#279

Post by bequanna »

el_benhameen wrote: post #208
afavour wrote: post #129

I'm vaxxed. I'm boosted. I'd very much like to be done. But my children cannot be vaccinated. As a parent of a young kid it kind of feels like everyone has just moved on. I know folks in here will tell me that statistically speaking my children are unlikely to be hospitalized and so on, and I agree. But I know enough kids who got COVID and suffered the symptoms (e.g. a months-long scratchy cough) that I'm not going t…

I am with you on all of this, with one small, slightly hopeful note. My under-5 is enrolled in the Pfizer study, and they are not starting over from scratch. The existing cohort is going to receive a third dose at >2 months past their last dose (starting at the end of this month, probably), and then immunogenicity will be reassessed. I am incredibly frustrated that pfizer and the fda have been so slow to roll the vac…

Are the children in this trial part of high risk groups?

I guess I am quite surprised to hear that there are drug trials for healthy children that young.

In this case, the risk/reward seems very imbalanced almost to the point being unethical.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#280

Post by clarge1120 »

dnautics wrote: post #253
nwiswell wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of your points have validity, but three are borderline dangerous misinformation: - The majority of those who died WITH THE VACCINE had 4+ co-morbidities. The virus is still very dangerous to the unvaccinated - The vaccine does indeed reduce your propensity to spread the virus, although it doesn't eliminate the risk. - The reason for lockdowns is not to make the virus "go away". It is to control the impact on the…

> The virus is still very dangerous to the unvaccinated Do we know this about omicron? How dangerous is "very dangerous"? As it is with pre-omicron, CFR for COVID-19 was, pessimistically, 0.5-1%, less if you're not in an at-risk group. AFAICT we have no reliable numbers on "long covid". For the record, I am not anti-vaxx, I am vaccinated, I'm just anti-using-science-as-an-ideology.

Also, let’s define “very dangerous”. Every recovery chart I’ve seen shows a 98 percent or higher recovery rate: similar to a bad flu season.
Post reply on HN