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More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

theatlantic.com

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Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#71

Post by JPKab »

jsiaajdsdaa wrote: post #43
peregren wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vaccine may have kept you out of ICU. It doesn't seem logical to change to a "let the chips fall where they may" based on this experience.

I am not sure if your assertion is true. I am completely unvaccinated and at times also ran a heart rate above 120 (involuntarily) and a fever above 102. However the difference for me was that I was at home and all I needed to do was take my inhaler if I felt short of breath and take advil quite religiously for the fever. So I don't feel there is any difference between their symptoms and mine, and I am an asthmatic a…

Just a note for anyone reading this but if you want to take a pain reliever for covid infection, apparently aspirin is an ideal one because the feature of preventing blood clots is very useful in preventing the fairly rare but serious covid complications caused by microclots.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#72

Post by nerdponx »

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #17

I'm fully vax'd and boosted. I'll probably continue to get boosted in the future. All that said? I feel like the government did a really bad job communicating who needs the booster and when. First, they gave vague recommendations to immunocompromised folks. They said everyone else probably didn't need it. Then they said well, ok for older folks. Then this new omni variant comes out and they're badgering everyone to g…

I'll wait until the booster actually becomes specific to the current strain. Ideally I'd also like the vaccine to not make me sick for 2 days, since most other common vaccines don't (e.g. influenza). But maybe that's just not possible.

Not having increased risk of heart inflammation and rare dangerous thromboses would be nice too, but then again it seems like Covid causes those anyway. So maybe we just need to update our base rates for those conditions and move on from the way things used to be.

Plus, if I can still spread Covid and make grandma critically ill even after I have the booster, whereas I'm at super low risk for serious illness, is the booster even doing anything to reduce hospital utilization?

I had what I think was omicron, and it seems like I don't really need a booster on top of it... or do I?

The point is that I have no idea what the right thing to do is.

I feel like there's no public health response in the USA anymore. The President is just telling people to f*cking "Google it", everyone seems to be either a paranoid wacko anti-vax Covid denier Bill-Gates-is-coming-for-your-body-fluids-and-children cultist or a "trust the science" cultist, and the big pharma companies (Pfizer, Moderna) seem to be just raking it in hand over fist with all these vaccine doses.

Seems like everyone has to brush up on their statistics and start reading the research, because the news and government agencies just aren't worth a damn anymore when it comes to communicating. It seems that the Trump legacy of "abject societal dysfunction" is here to stay.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#73

Post by newsclues »

peregren wrote: post #25
EMM_386 wrote: post #14

I'm double vaxxed and boosted and just spent 4 days in the hospital with Covid. I actually entered the hospital without Covid and got it while I was in there. They had the entire place divided into separate wings and I had to be transferred between them. 103 degree fever, pulse 130, was pretty awful but came out of it fine. I, too, am done with all of it. Let the chips fall where they may now.

The vaccine may have kept you out of ICU. It doesn't seem logical to change to a "let the chips fall where they may" based on this experience.

It doesn’t make sense that individuals can do everything to be safe and the the hospital of all places is where they get sick.

Dwell deeply on that. The hospital is incapable of keeping people safe from Covid.

All the masks, social distancing and testing, and you catch Covid at the hospital.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#74

Post by bogomipz »

torstenvl wrote: post #2

I think it boils down to two questions: - What is the average level of risk to someone taking reasonable personal precautions? - What level of state-sponsored violence is justifiable to further reduce that risk? Governments and societies have been acting out-of-control and it needs to stop. If people don't want to take personal precautions, they should be at liberty to assume the additional risk.

>"What level of state-sponsored violence is justifiable to further reduce that risk?"

What is this referring to? Can you say what instances of "state-sponsored-violence" have occurred in the pursuit of risk reduction?

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#75

Post by CoastalCoder »

tombert wrote: post #32
smm11 wrote: post #16

Quoted post unavailable.

Does a comment like this actually contribute to anything? I don't want to be mean, but this is a comment that would probably be more appropriate on Reddit or 4chan. That said, a fatalistic viewpoint is valid enough philosophy, but I am still in the camp of "even if I don't like them very much, the unvaccinated are still humans and we should still try and minimize how many of them get sick." NOTE: I'm vaccinated and b…

I think the parent comment is relevant to the extent that controlling spread is a consensus problem.

E.g., if I knew that a variant will be endemic unless 90% of a community follows certain practices, but 40% state they won't comply, that matters. If nothing else, it makes it seem pointless for me to bother wearing a mask for others' protection.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#76

Post by ceejayoz »

dekhn wrote: post #42
peregren wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vaccine may have kept you out of ICU. It doesn't seem logical to change to a "let the chips fall where they may" based on this experience.

at this point I want better public health evidence from CDC etc that "the vaccine may have kept you out of the ICU". I need better quantification of the various risks before continuing to live an extremely inconvenient lifestyle to ostensibly save other's lives.

This information is very easy to find. See the first chart here:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidvi...

There's a clear difference in hospitalization and death between the vaccinated and unvaccinated populations. You don't have to take the CDC's word for it - other countries can see the same thing in their numbers.

Calling getting the vaccine "an extremely inconvenient lifestyle" is silly.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#77

Post by dhc02 »

throwawayboise wrote: post #23
_xnmw wrote: post #7

The risk is now "priced in" to our consciousness. Back when it first started, covid was a big scary unknown risk to take for simply going outside and interacting with people. Now, it's a well-known risk, and people are willing to take that risk, along with other well-known risks for going outside, like the risk of getting into a car accident or slipping and falling.

Some people were in the "willing to take that risk" from the beginning, and were relentlessly demonized. Now it's OK though if everyone feels that way.

There is an important difference.

In the first year of the pandemic, the people you're talking about were okay with the personal risk, which is fine, but also ignoring, downplaying, or refusing to care about the risk to others who couldn't protect themselves. Which is less okay in my opinion.

But now, the vast majority of people still at risk have chosen not to protect themselves. So vaccinated individuals choosing to live life normally are increasing the chances the virus spreads, but not increasing the risk of serious injury or death to the defenseless and vulnerable.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#78

Post by evv555 »

oauea wrote: post #6
torstenvl wrote: post #2

I think it boils down to two questions: - What is the average level of risk to someone taking reasonable personal precautions? - What level of state-sponsored violence is justifiable to further reduce that risk? Governments and societies have been acting out-of-control and it needs to stop. If people don't want to take personal precautions, they should be at liberty to assume the additional risk.

What violence?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cuB6XRjaH4

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#79

Post by yongjik »

throwawayboise wrote: post #23
_xnmw wrote: post #7

The risk is now "priced in" to our consciousness. Back when it first started, covid was a big scary unknown risk to take for simply going outside and interacting with people. Now, it's a well-known risk, and people are willing to take that risk, along with other well-known risks for going outside, like the risk of getting into a car accident or slipping and falling.

Some people were in the "willing to take that risk" from the beginning, and were relentlessly demonized. Now it's OK though if everyone feels that way.

Taking the risk to spread it after two years of the virus not going away is questionable; taking the same risk at the beginning when nobody had any idea how bad it could become is pure lunacy.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#80

Post by mattnewton »

Spartan-S63 wrote: post #29

I think the message of "vaxxed and done" is the right way for us to be moving, but I think it's incomplete. To get vaxxed insulates you from the risk of severe disease. It reduces the risk to the point that going out and living life is an acceptable risk, just like any other. However, it doesn't protect you from infecting others. To that end, I think that indoor mask mandates continue to be justifiable and should con…

I would agree with this but add continuous testing to the mix, and actually quarantining if you have a positive test but no symptoms. It seems like the most reasonable comprimise between the individual desire to return to normal.

Unfortunately this is a large individual responsibility, both in behavior and in the costs of getting enough tests. PCR tests are mostly impractical for continuous testing while going out and about becuase of the large time lag between testing and results, made worse by spiking demand and limited lab capacity, and buying rapid tests can add up as a real cost to the average family.

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