More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’ • Hacker News Board

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#51

Post by chrischen » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 6:47 PM UTC

dragontamer wrote: post #3

torstenvl wrote: post #2

I think it boils down to two questions: - What is the average level of risk to someone taking reasonable personal precautions? - What level of state-sponsored violence is justifiable to further reduce that risk? Governments and societies have been acting out-of-control and it needs to stop. If people don't want to take personal precautions, they should be at liberty to assume the additional risk.

> - What is the average level of risk to someone taking reasonable personal precautions? Depends on how full hospitals get. We all get into accidents. We fall and hit our heads, we might get a heart attack, a pregnancy might suddenly go bad and a C-section (or worse surgery) is needed. As COVID19 fills up hospitals around the country, the risk isn't from Omicron itself anymore, as much as it is from an overburdened h…

Why not just charge unvaccinated people for their hospital bills? Then overburdened hospitals become profitable hospitals.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#52

Post by denimnerd42 » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 6:47 PM UTC

ashtonkem wrote: post #47

denimnerd42 wrote: post #12

i think i'm done with current level vaccines. I've had 3 mrna. The second and third each took me out for 2 days. I don't see any reason for more unless a better one comes out. I do think 3 are important though.

I’ve gotten my flu shot yearly for my entire living memory. I don’t really understand why a booster vaccine for a pandemic that’s killed an order of magnitude more people than the flu does per year is some serious burden.

The covid vaccines make me seriously sick for at least a day or two.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#53

Post by mattnewton » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 6:48 PM UTC

throwawayboise wrote: post #23

_xnmw wrote: post #7

The risk is now "priced in" to our consciousness. Back when it first started, covid was a big scary unknown risk to take for simply going outside and interacting with people. Now, it's a well-known risk, and people are willing to take that risk, along with other well-known risks for going outside, like the risk of getting into a car accident or slipping and falling.

Some people were in the "willing to take that risk" from the beginning, and were relentlessly demonized. Now it's OK though if everyone feels that way.

Well, they demonized for doing so on the back of the current medical system, which was very close to being completely overwhelmed. Omicron has made this the case again, though what changed in the meantime was the messaging after the vaccine. It was true that while you were immunized you could take these risk, but Omicron changed that and the messaging didn't change.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#54

Post by dragontamer » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 6:48 PM UTC

khazhoux wrote: post #45

peregren wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The vaccine may have kept you out of ICU. It doesn't seem logical to change to a "let the chips fall where they may" based on this experience.

He/she didn't deny that the vaccine kept him out of ICU. But once vaxxed+boosted, what more realistically can we do? I mean sure, let's maybe avoid coughing into each other's open mouths. But apart from that, Omicron seems to be so contagious, we're all bound to get it eventually unless we literally lock ourselves at home for the next 3 years.

We all know the gameplan.

1. Vaccines (most effective do it first).

2. Masks everywhere.

3. Lockdowns, if necessary.

--------

The big question right now is if we should push button#3. Many of us hoped it wouldn't be necessary, but things really are that bad now that we're contemplating pushing the button.

Lockdowns are themselves staged. We can lockdown schools (already happening in many colleges effectively. I have cousins who are off of college because they've extended their winter break, to minimize COVID19 spread).

---------

There's also lesser actions: I work in technology. All in-person meetings have been canceled. Schools are "sometimes online" in my area, depending on local conditions. Testing has gone up significantly, we try to catch the disease and encourage people to stay home asap to minimize spread. Etc. etc.

There's plenty of actions we can do, even if we decide against lockdowns.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#55

Post by jmole » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 6:48 PM UTC

drewg123 wrote: post #26

I think a lot of this depends on the typical severity of Omicron (and future variants). I'm vaccinated and boosted. I wear a mask in public. I don't go out much. I do travel fairly regularly (fly maybe 1-2x per month). I finally got Covid last week, likely on a flight. I had ~3 days of mild cold-like symptoms (sore throat, runny nose, congestion, very low grade fever that approached 101F). It was far less severe than…

Exactly - Delta had a reputation for being both prolific and extremely virulent. Long COVID, loss of smell & taste, heart and lung problems, etc. A terrible illness.

Omicron seems to carry far fewer of those risks from what data we have, especially if you are vaccinated.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#56

Post by newsclues » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 6:48 PM UTC

Poor communication, made up for with intense marketing push via all channels.

Lies and miscommunication, over public health policy, without transparency and openness.

Silencing criticism, rather than open discussion.

I’m surprised more people are continuing to follow along.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#57

Post by cblconfederate » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 6:48 PM UTC

I wonder if sociologists can explain the americans obsession with politics in everything. This is not normal, there seems to be something exceptional about how it is normalized to discuss natural phenomena with political lingo

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#58

Post by denimnerd42 » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 6:48 PM UTC

collias wrote: post #37

denimnerd42 wrote: post #12

i think i'm done with current level vaccines. I've had 3 mrna. The second and third each took me out for 2 days. I don't see any reason for more unless a better one comes out. I do think 3 are important though.

Apparently, booster efficacy wanes after about 10 weeks[1]. If you think the 3rd shot is important, why not the 4th, 5th, ad infinitum? Genuinely curious, not trying to be difficult. [1]: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

Being sick for 2 days. I'm not signing up to be sick 2 days every 2.5 months. Pounding headache, fatigue, nausea, heart pain.

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#59

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 6:49 PM UTC

SerLava wrote: post #21

_xnmw wrote: post #7

The risk is now "priced in" to our consciousness. Back when it first started, covid was a big scary unknown risk to take for simply going outside and interacting with people. Now, it's a well-known risk, and people are willing to take that risk, along with other well-known risks for going outside, like the risk of getting into a car accident or slipping and falling.

Yes it's sort of like the alarming scourge of preventable automotive deaths, except that it's over 10 times worse. Also like slipping and falling, but about 20 times worse.

[deleted]

Re: More Americans are saying they’re ‘vaxxed and done’

#60

Post by OminousWeapons » Mon, Jan 10, 2022, 6:49 PM UTC

torstenvl wrote: post #2

I think it boils down to two questions: - What is the average level of risk to someone taking reasonable personal precautions? - What level of state-sponsored violence is justifiable to further reduce that risk? Governments and societies have been acting out-of-control and it needs to stop. If people don't want to take personal precautions, they should be at liberty to assume the additional risk.

> If people don't want to take personal precautions, they should be at liberty to assume the additional risk.

I agree, the problem is no one is making them assume the risk. If they truly assumed the risk of not getting vaccinated, one of a few things would happen:

1. The risk of not getting vaccinated would be priced into their health insurance premiums and their costs would skyrocket.

2. If they require hospitalization, they should be turned away at the door if there is insufficient capacity. Alternatively, they can be hospitalized but discharged the minute their presence begins to strain resources. They could even be refused assistance generally.

3. If I can suggest that my infection came from person X (e.g. I was around them when they had the virus), then they should be liable for damages.

None of those things will happen, because people don't want to assume the risk that comes with their choices, they want to offload it onto other people. They want to be able to not be vaccinated then scream for help when they get in trouble and have the healthcare system ride to the rescue.