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Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’

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Re: Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’

#241

Post by satsuma »

marricks wrote: post #165
yupper32 wrote: post #138

A lot of people seem confused why a lot of tech people aren't pushing for unions. For me it's simple: Tech has brought me from near poverty to pretty darn wealthy. Why mess with that? Could a union help increase wages even more? Maybe. Are we being paid too little compared to our output? Maybe. But at the same time I'm being paid more than I could have possibly imagined before I entered the field.

Yep, tech can pay their employees very very well to ignore moral quandaries. Yet many still do care, goes to show money can’t fully buy people out.

see: meta/facebook having to raise salaries to get interest. there's a morality "tax" you have to pay if your employees are not proud of what your firm does.

Re: Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’

#242

Post by sli »

twox2 wrote: post #226
awb wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> treat the relationship as adversarial and come ready for battle every day against the legal structure designed to exploit you for the benefit of distant shareholders Exploit you with industry leading pay and perks? Unions are designed to balance out monopolistic / low pay / highly geographical companies like large auto manufacturers or airlines. There is so much competitive hiring in tech, it’s one of the easiest c…

My understanding is that the point of unions in tech is for people to band together to stand up for those that might be under-represented. It's like the ultimate diversity/inclusion initiative.

And to better hold higher-ups accountable for their mistakes or harmful decisions, something that an individual will never be able to do.

Re: Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’

#243

Post by lovecg »

awb wrote: post #219
queuebert wrote: post #23

Imputing altruistic morals to profit-seeking entities and then continually being surprised and offended when companies act shady puts employees in a pointlessly weak position. Instead, treat the relationship as adversarial and come ready for battle every day against the legal structure designed to exploit you for the benefit of distant shareholders. There is no shame in fighting for yourself. You are worth it.

> treat the relationship as adversarial and come ready for battle every day against the legal structure designed to exploit you for the benefit of distant shareholders Exploit you with industry leading pay and perks? Unions are designed to balance out monopolistic / low pay / highly geographical companies like large auto manufacturers or airlines. There is so much competitive hiring in tech, it’s one of the easiest c…

There are things beyond compensation that individuals cannot easily negotiate by themselves. For example, a reasonable ask could be to never get contacted by boss or work colleagues (about work) outside of work hours (unless oncall, etc.). In the absence of group coordination that a union provides this work arrangement is simply out of reach for most.

Re: Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’

#244

Post by AnthonyMouse »

vegai_ wrote: post #41

I slightly fear how much of my own thinking is there just because some corporation or another big entity wanted me to think like that and spent considerable resources to make it happen.

> I slightly fear how much of my own thinking is there just because some corporation or another big entity wanted me to think like that and spent considerable resources to make it happen.

Now consider how much of the thinking of the people who believe the opposite is there just because some other big entity wanted them to think like that and spent considerable resources to make it happen.

The one thing you can't outsource is critical thinking. Sorry, you have to do it yourself.

Re: Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’

#245

Post by micromacrofoot »

awb wrote: post #219
queuebert wrote: post #23

Imputing altruistic morals to profit-seeking entities and then continually being surprised and offended when companies act shady puts employees in a pointlessly weak position. Instead, treat the relationship as adversarial and come ready for battle every day against the legal structure designed to exploit you for the benefit of distant shareholders. There is no shame in fighting for yourself. You are worth it.

> treat the relationship as adversarial and come ready for battle every day against the legal structure designed to exploit you for the benefit of distant shareholders Exploit you with industry leading pay and perks? Unions are designed to balance out monopolistic / low pay / highly geographical companies like large auto manufacturers or airlines. There is so much competitive hiring in tech, it’s one of the easiest c…

You're severely underestimating the power of collective bargaining. A good union will advocate for you even if you don't do anything. It removes a lot of the secrecy, ambiguity, and work when it comes to getting the maximum value out of your employment. Too worn out or anxious to keep pushing for a raise? the union's got it. Issues that you would never mention to your boss as an individual for fear of retaliation? the union's got it.

Re: Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’

#246

Post by brightball »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #234
brightball wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is Google colluding with every employer and entrepreneur in the country?

Do they need to be to poke a significant hole in your argument? They colluded with basically all of the largest high paying employers in the SV ecosystem. That is absolutely going to have a massive systematic effect on compensation.

Does a union fix that?

Re: Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’

#247

Post by jcranberry »

I think I remember this. IIRC google's story were that they were fired because they were sharing internal documents and keeping track of other employees one-on-ones, medical aptmts, family meetings, etc. The NYT article does a decent job of going over a timeline of everything.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/02/18/magazine/goog...

Re: Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’

#248

Post by iamacyborg »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #30
hdjjhhvvhga wrote: post #6

I don't believe it's only Google, and I don't think it's particularly secret.

The New York Times has had an anti-tech vendetta for a while now. Most likely, in my cynical worldview, because tech has hurt their subscription numbers immensely, not because they want to do the world a service. An example of this is when they published a whole story about a guy who became radicalized from YouTube... and then became unradicalized a few months later without doing anything radical. But someone could h…

> tech has hurt their subscription numbers immensely, not because they want to do the world a service.

They can do both at the same time though?

Re: Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’

#249

Post by s_dev »

shtopointo wrote: post #163

There's a valid argument to be made that unions do suck. You could call it informing people just as much as "convincing" them.

That argument should be made by a professor in their college lectures. Not as part of induction procedure to the company. It should be legal but it's actually hilarious that this happens in the US. It would be like a landlord mandating a tenant watch a video on why tenancy rights are a bad idea.

Re: Google Had Secret Project to ‘Convince’ Employees ‘That Unions Suck’

#250

Post by laweijfmvo »

> Kara Silverstein, Google’s human resources director said that she “like[d] the idea” of the op-ed, but that it should be executed so that “there would be no fingerprints and not Google specific.”

Should tell you everything you need to know about your company's HR department's true interests.

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