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I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

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Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#301

Post by bstpierre »

black_puppydog wrote: post #65

I find it funny how people seem to fixate so much on the fact that the author upgraded various components to say the title is misleading. As someone with apparently similar requirements, the take-away from this should be this: Even though significant work is required to keep these old machines working, some people prefer to do so. Crucially, they prefer it not because they love tinkering, but simply because the value…

My 2012 Dell XPS14 is still my preferred laptop even without any upgrades or tinkering. I have a somehwat newer XPS13 for work that is also decent (but not as good as the '12), and according to the calendar I'm due for a refresh but like you when I look at what's available I don't see any reason to go through the hassle of an upgrade, never mind the cost.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#302

Post by 300bps »

vxNsr wrote: post #282
300bps wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t notice any. I also don’t use RDP - for Amazon Workspaces I use their app that utilizes the PCoIP protocol. Other than that my last job was working at one of the largest banks in the United States. We were 100% virtual desktop since 2014. My current employer just switched to about 95% virtual desktop. Nobody ever complains about latency. I think it’s a given that literally everyone will switch to this method a…

Everyone I know who works in VDI complains about latency. My wife’s whole company uses virtual desktops, and anytime she’s working from and I look over her shoulder I shudder, it’s incredibly noticeable.

I have no experience with that. I am connected to a virtual desktop right now that is in my employer's datacenter. I am at home on my personal desktop. On my company virtual desktop I am running Zoom and am on a conference call with 11 people all of us have video turned on and there is literally 0 latency that I can perceive. I have a local Logitech webcam that is perfectly accessible from my VDI desktop.

Moving windows around is something that I typically utilize to test for lag and there is just none. My previous employer was literally using this for 7 years before I came to my current employer and I was so happy when we switched to VDI.

Of course it depends on your Internet connection and your ISP's connection pathway to get to your VDI but I've regularly connected to my VDI desktops over the years from Starbucks WiFi, Dunkin Donuts wifi and many others with no perceived latency.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#303

Post by jrockway »

TheFattestNinja wrote: post #61

I have been using as my only machine a T530 uninterrupted (think 10h/day uptime) since Nov 2012, both as a desktop replacement and to carry it around. I had to replace its motherboard recently but it was my fault as I put it in too enclosed of a space and overheated/burned it. Aside from a bit of fan noise, it's still going strong. It's definitely underspecced wtr to graphics nowadays, but still able to run things li…

Does League have demanding hardware requirements? It's older than that laptop.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#304

Post by Paianni »

I 'retired' a T510 in 2017 that's slightly deficient by modern standards, Google Maps in particular is not much fun to use on it. I think their durability is overrated; a clip broke on the bundled battery and it wouldn't stay attached after that, and some of the plastic strips around the air vent broke off from being caught on something while in transit. I'm not a huge fan of the red nipple in the keyboard but it was very comfortable aside from that.

Nowadays a tower suits me better.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#305

Post by emptybottle »

Shorel wrote: post #262

> I’d like to thank Intel here for making this possible. The CPU innovation stagnation between 2012-2017 has resulted in 4 cores still being an acceptable low-end CPU in early 2022. Without this, my laptop would likely be obsolete by now. Hahaha, this last sentence seals the overall tone of the article.

What's hilarious to me is that Apple considers their own computers of this era to be "vintage"

No joke, that's the real term https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201624 "About vintage products. -- Products are considered vintage when Apple stopped distributing them for sale more than 5 and less than 7 years ago."

Well, not much has changed on the intel side in that timeframe. My 2013 laptop is still getting OS updates and performs fine for my needs. And now I can brag that I'm running a vintage computer as my daily driver.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#306

Post by jagger27 »

tombert wrote: post #299
Shorel wrote: post #262

> I’d like to thank Intel here for making this possible. The CPU innovation stagnation between 2012-2017 has resulted in 4 cores still being an acceptable low-end CPU in early 2022. Without this, my laptop would likely be obsolete by now. Hahaha, this last sentence seals the overall tone of the article.

Yeah, so something I used to do was buy used servers from ~2010 or so (5-6 years old at the time). Due to the fact that CPUs really haven't changed a lot for servers (at least for the stuff I was doing), it was a relatively cheap way to get 40+ core computers for less than a thousand bucks.

If it weren’t for the cumbersome and outdated iDRACs and ILOs of those old servers they’d still be perfectly usable for lots of things. If you don’t need out of band management it’s probably best to ignore them as much as possible.

I used a PCIe to M.2 NVMe adapter and an EFI shim so that my Dell R820 could boot from it (which is not supported by the BIOS). Stuff like that adds a ton of life to older systems. I still got rid of it because it was too loud and power hungry for what I was doing. Surprisingly, I was able to sell it for roughly what I paid for it over a year later. 32 cores and 192GB of RAM for under a grand is pretty incredible.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#307

Post by tombert »

jagger27 wrote: post #306
tombert wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, so something I used to do was buy used servers from ~2010 or so (5-6 years old at the time). Due to the fact that CPUs really haven't changed a lot for servers (at least for the stuff I was doing), it was a relatively cheap way to get 40+ core computers for less than a thousand bucks.

If it weren’t for the cumbersome and outdated iDRACs and ILOs of those old servers they’d still be perfectly usable for lots of things. If you don’t need out of band management it’s probably best to ignore them as much as possible. I used a PCIe to M.2 NVMe adapter and an EFI shim so that my Dell R820 could boot from it (which is not supported by the BIOS). Stuff like that adds a ton of life to older systems. I still…

> I still got rid of it because it was loud and power hungry.

Same! I loved my 48 core server, but there was actually a glitch in the Con Edison system where I ended up getting free power for two years [1], and once they fixed it and I got a power bill email for almost $900 while I was at work, I called my wife and said "UNPLUG THE SERVER NOW. RUN, DON'T WALK!"

[1] To be clear, I didn't know there was a glitch, I just thought power was cheaper in that apartment. I'm not greedy, I'm just dumb.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#308

Post by kitsunesoba »

perth wrote: post #251
black_puppydog wrote: post #65

I find it funny how people seem to fixate so much on the fact that the author upgraded various components to say the title is misleading. As someone with apparently similar requirements, the take-away from this should be this: Even though significant work is required to keep these old machines working, some people prefer to do so. Crucially, they prefer it not because they love tinkering, but simply because the value…

Pro Tip: get Dells business models like the latitude series The business Dell laptops blow anything lenovo has ever made out of the water in terms of specs, build quality, and serviceability. Also Dell’s bios is way better and easier to do stuff in. I’ve had a t420 and I thought it was crap compared to the Dell business laptops. The cooling, plastic casing material, and serviceability just isn’t there. On the T420 my…

I haven’t worked with anything newer, but the late 2000s Dell Precision laptops are a true pleasure to work on — a great deal more pleasant than any Thinkpad I’ve cracked open. With just four screws I’m inside of my old M4400 and can pop off its heat sink, change thermal paste, swap CPUs, change wifi/Bluetooth/cell cards, etc.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#309

Post by my_usernam3 »

mikepurvis wrote: post #289
MR4D wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Last January I converted my old (2012) quad-core Intel desktop and gave it to my son for gaming. The only thing I had to do was add a 1-TB SSD and put in an RTX-3060 Ti, and it runs every game (Fortnite, CoD, etc) at 100+ FPS without any issues. I'm still amazed that a simple GPU change and the machine keeps up with his friends brand-new AMD box (not sure what chip, just that it was new in 2021). When the 12th…

My wife has been gaming on a fourth-gen i5 + RX 570 for a few months, and it was mostly fine until Halo Infinite— with that title it was pretty clear that she was CPU bound, with the system chugging on open areas, mob AI, particles, etc. We upgraded her to a second hand B450 mobo + Ryzen 2400 and that's been fine. Still running on low settings due to the limited GPU, but everything is at least playable. And this moth…

Don't upgrade for Halo Infinite. That game also turned my otherwise fine machine into a potato. I've since fixed the issue by not playing halo and playing splitgate instead.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#310

Post by cehrlich »

ihateolives wrote: post #230
cehrlich wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even assuming Framework shuts down tomorrow and destroys their existing stock of replacement parts and the specs for making new ones, I would argue that you can at the very least assume permanent availability of RAM, SSD, Display (it uses a commodity panel), fan, and battery (there are knockoff batteries for much more obscure laptops). I would assume that keyboards, trackpads, etc. will also be available as some lapt…

> I would argue that you can at the very least assume permanent availability of RAM, SSD, Display (it uses a commodity panel), fan, and battery I mean, you can buy a new-ish Thinkpad where you can replace/upgrade all of those things. You get great compatibility and most hw/sw compatibility bugs are already known and have workarounds. Framework has to have some other value propositions as well besides being able to re…

As I said, that's the absolute worst-case scenario.

I don't own one personally, but reviews have been overwhelmingly positive so presumably it does have something to offer beyond replaceability. (disclaimer: some people on HN seem to have had some driver issues on Linux on theirs)

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