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Milan confirms new cycling network linking 80% of the city to bike paths

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Re: Milan confirms new cycling network linking 80% of the city to bike paths

#101
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans seem really good at ignoring cyclists being run over. Children don't seem to walk/cycle and rely on being driven around by their parents here so they don't die as much (good, obviously people know its not safe) but doesn't promote infrastructure investment for alternative transit (bad).

Reminds me of this. https://twitter.com/darren_cullen/status/1422550369985605637

This is one of my favorite artists! It's so great to see him referenced here!

Re: Milan confirms new cycling network linking 80% of the city to bike paths

#102
post #9

If you live in a region where bike infrastructure is underfunded, and car infrastructure is overfunded, it’s probable that’s because cycling is viewed as a recreational activity in your area and thus undeserving of tax dollars compared to ‘essential’ car travel. If you disagree with that, (and live in a democracy) let someone know! Find out who controls the infrastructure spending in your area and call/email them.

I'm fairly anti-car myself, But factor in cycling is not practical transportation for most people. It targets a certain demographic, people who have the physical ability to actually cycle. What about those who cannot, what about disabled people? Even if you are fit, anything more that 10 miles a day is difficult. I'm a massive fan of public transit, however, as an American this means I can only live in a handful of c…

This is such a weird argument. Many people can't drive (minors, elderly, handicapped, health issues, etc.), and we still shade a ton of money on car infrastructure. This is not a zero-sum game; more cyclist means fewer cars, which means better services/life for people who need to drive.

And we are talking about $280 Million; that's a piss in a bucket for a city like Milan.

Re: Milan confirms new cycling network linking 80% of the city to bike paths

#103

Meanwhile our idiot city (Oxford, UK) is spending £1.2m on "Quickways", which are painted lines on existing roads... guaranteed to keep cyclists 0% safe. This in the face of national Government guidance in favour of physical segregation from cars. (Plans at https://letstalk.oxfordshire.gov.uk/quickway-cycle-route-oxf... : the promise of "segregation where possible" in reality means about 5% of the network.) It is rea…

> It is really frustrating how highway engineers, as a profession, are unwilling to consistently learn lessons from the Netherlands in designing cycle infrastructure. These decisions aren't made by highway engineers, they are made by politicians. The highway engineer puts a proper bikelane, makes the highway wider, and tells the politician that its going to cost 100 million dollars to do a couple of kms. The politici…

> These decisions aren't made by highway engineers, they are made by politicians.

They are made by the public. We need to persaude other citizens, not rely on (and blame) some higher power.

Re: Milan confirms new cycling network linking 80% of the city to bike paths

#104
post #11

Meanwhile our idiot city (Oxford, UK) is spending £1.2m on "Quickways", which are painted lines on existing roads... guaranteed to keep cyclists 0% safe. This in the face of national Government guidance in favour of physical segregation from cars. (Plans at https://letstalk.oxfordshire.gov.uk/quickway-cycle-route-oxf... : the promise of "segregation where possible" in reality means about 5% of the network.) It is rea…

So what would you propose as a solution specifically for Oxford? Many streets such as Abingdon Rd are already narrow enough and I can't see how one could segregate a dedicated lane for cyclists there.

Remove all paint and signage to make car drivers slow down from fear. Require cyclists to have extremely bright flashing rear lights. If all else fails increase the number of tiny roundabouts and speed bumps.

Re: Milan confirms new cycling network linking 80% of the city to bike paths

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fairly anti-car myself, But factor in cycling is not practical transportation for most people. It targets a certain demographic, people who have the physical ability to actually cycle. What about those who cannot, what about disabled people? Even if you are fit, anything more that 10 miles a day is difficult. I'm a massive fan of public transit, however, as an American this means I can only live in a handful of c…

This is such a weird argument. Many people can't drive (minors, elderly, handicapped, health issues, etc.), and we still shade a ton of money on car infrastructure. This is not a zero-sum game; more cyclist means fewer cars, which means better services/life for people who need to drive. And we are talking about $280 Million; that's a piss in a bucket for a city like Milan.

Right.

There are American roading projects for a single interchange that cost more than $280 million.

Re: Milan confirms new cycling network linking 80% of the city to bike paths

#106
post #51

Meanwhile our idiot city (Oxford, UK) is spending £1.2m on "Quickways", which are painted lines on existing roads... guaranteed to keep cyclists 0% safe. This in the face of national Government guidance in favour of physical segregation from cars. (Plans at https://letstalk.oxfordshire.gov.uk/quickway-cycle-route-oxf... : the promise of "segregation where possible" in reality means about 5% of the network.) It is rea…

A lot of bike paths here in Copenhagen are simply painted and it works fine, even for small kids.

A painted bike line in Copenhagen is huge compared to the lanes they paint in Britain.

The British version is about half as wide, and often allows parking for large parts of the day (i.e. is only a lane for a couple of hours).

I've never been to Oxford, but someone mentioned Abingdon Road [1]. Just some bike symbols painted on the road.

Or a little further up [2] -- that thing on the left is a British cycle lane. If you go forward 3 clicks, you can see it ends almost immediately.

You obviously wouldn't take small kids through crap like this: [3]. Unbelievably, this is "National Cycle Route 57" (the StreetView car is pointed the wrong way to see it, but if you search you can find the tiny blue "57" sign at the roundabout.)

Other than the bridges, the only part of Central Copenhagen with painted lanes I can think of is Bernstorffsgade [4].

I'm not really sure where you're thinking of for "lots" of bike paths. A little further out [5] is this, where at least the lanes go behind the parked cars, and are wider. https://osm.org/go/0NWvDIpQ-?layers=C shows solid lines for painted lanes, and there aren't many.

[1] https://www.google.com/maps/@51.7378951,-1.2521828,3a,70.1y,...

[2] https://www.google.com/maps/@51.7471822,-1.2563676,3a,75y,18...

[3] https://www.google.com/maps/@51.7504861,-1.2448391,3a,75y,12...

[4] https://www.google.com/maps/@55.6698747,12.5700607,3a,75y,31...

[5] https://www.google.com/maps/@55.6598222,12.6187002,3a,75y,16...

Re: Milan confirms new cycling network linking 80% of the city to bike paths

#107
post #87

Bikes are a pretty big part of Italian transport, or at least more so than any other place I've been other than Amsterdam. My girlfriend lived in a small town about 1.5 hours outside of Milan for a year, and was surprised by the bike path system that linked all the towns together around Lake Garda, and how old some of the people were who were riding to visit friends and family. Literally, age wasn't a reason to not r…

I don't quite agree. I mean yes, we use bikes, but Milan is one of the most car-heavy cities I've seen in Europe. There are cars everywhere, parked on tram stops, parked in the middle of the road, etc. It sucks, and I definitely don't feel safe cycling. What you say holds for smaller towns. In my hometown 40 km from Milan I never needed a car nor a bus. (However as soon as you need to go to the next town you need a car.)

Re: Milan confirms new cycling network linking 80% of the city to bike paths

#108
post #7
post #3

Now if they could just pick up all the trash and dog shit, we'll be great.

Milan has no problem with trash I also don’t think that this “benaltrismo” is useful :)

benaltrismo = whataboutism, for those who don't speak Italian

Re: Milan confirms new cycling network linking 80% of the city to bike paths

#109
post #9

If you live in a region where bike infrastructure is underfunded, and car infrastructure is overfunded, it’s probable that’s because cycling is viewed as a recreational activity in your area and thus undeserving of tax dollars compared to ‘essential’ car travel. If you disagree with that, (and live in a democracy) let someone know! Find out who controls the infrastructure spending in your area and call/email them.

I'm fairly anti-car myself, But factor in cycling is not practical transportation for most people. It targets a certain demographic, people who have the physical ability to actually cycle. What about those who cannot, what about disabled people? Even if you are fit, anything more that 10 miles a day is difficult. I'm a massive fan of public transit, however, as an American this means I can only live in a handful of c…

E-bikes and other electric personal conveyances disrupt various arguments you raised.
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