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I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

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Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#251

Post by perth »

black_puppydog wrote: post #65

I find it funny how people seem to fixate so much on the fact that the author upgraded various components to say the title is misleading. As someone with apparently similar requirements, the take-away from this should be this: Even though significant work is required to keep these old machines working, some people prefer to do so. Crucially, they prefer it not because they love tinkering, but simply because the value…

Pro Tip: get Dells business models like the latitude series

The business Dell laptops blow anything lenovo has ever made out of the water in terms of specs, build quality, and serviceability. Also Dell’s bios is way better and easier to do stuff in. I’ve had a t420 and I thought it was crap compared to the Dell business laptops. The cooling, plastic casing material, and serviceability just isn’t there. On the T420 my palm rest cracked and to replace it you pretty much had to fully take apart the laptop to get it off. ifixit rated that particular repair at a pretty high difficulty, so instead I took the reusable components out, binned it, and used a Dell latitude.

Currently I don't own a Dell business laptop however. Right now I'm using an Intel NUC Laptop and it does pretty good.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#252

Post by ho_schi »

Using here an X220. I replaced the HDD by an SDD and extended the RAM - it is still working. Currently I'm looking for a new small "44" battery (which fits completely into the body) but the replacement I received has a malfunction. I've still a 44+ which provides a longer runtime but also weights more. Plus the excellent hardware-maintenance manual! Of course always running with Linux. The new models are more sturdy (good) and provide a lot more CPU and GPU-Power (AMD) but the RAM is soldered and the battery not swap-able.

We need laws which enforce sustainable devices wich swap-able disks, main-memory, batteries and long time spare part supply including maintenance manuals. It shall be EXPENSIVE and UNATTRACTIVE for both vendors and buyers to purchase devices which doesn't offer this. How? Put well understandable "traffic lights" on every device by category {software replaceable, spare parts, maintenance manual, batteries}. Every single red light needs to increase the price by 30%[1]. I don't call for prohibition! Sometimes somebody need something extra flat and soldered and whatever reason - but even how uninformed you are - you must be aware of it how you harm yourself and anyone else.

   Apple MacBook:  
   Software not replaceable + 30%   
   Batteries glued and not purchasable from third parties + 30%  
   Maintenance manual not published + 30%  
   This adds 90% extra tax upon price.

   Lenovo ThinkPad:  
   Batteries screwed or glued, even require buying a "guarantee" for replacement service + 30%  
   Main-Memory soldered + 30  
   This adds 60% extra tax upon price
Smartwatch which is glued? Guess what! And I'm not saying adding another 30% extra for the not replaceable software because it allow it to be an embedded appliance. In case of Smartphones this will be another 30%.

I hope both customers and vendors will change their behavior quickly. If not we have a lot money to spend for health, schools and social support. What I don't want and not require is that you use your laptop for ten years. That unfair and not necessary but something possible and even normal. And if you're a developer or gamer, sell the old one and buy a new one. As long the devices can be used a long time it is good.

[1] I've chosen a high value to ensure an effect, especially - but not limited - to the high end market.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#253

Post by bigpeopleareold »

My T430s: would be nice if I can pull out better battery life (have two new ones) and has some occasional issues with the wiring for the network hardware kill switch. It's perceptibly slower on some pages, but only slightly (never bothered to figure out if it was the old WiFi or the CPU, an i7 for the time). It has some superficial cracks on it. It would also be nice to have USB-C and all that new stuff. But: with a screen upgrade (1080p with the ASIC card) and the best laptop keyboard I ever used and spare parts online galore and the potential at least to easily swap the BIOS and upgrade further, and perfectly fine and performant for the software development I do, it's close to perfect. Maybe a T430/quad-core would be nicer, but I'd rather just own my work computer (T470p, which is also close to perfect as well, but in other ways.)

So, it is rather funny to confirm again what some others might be thinking. The hardware is old and will have longer-term support issues, but for now and for a long time, I am glad not to think about having to get a new laptop for any use.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#254

Post by antiterra »

lproven wrote: post #158
ricardobayes wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Car industry is going in the direction of manufacturer rebuild (remanufacture), so laptop industry should do the same. Instead of making unupgradeable garbage, manufacturers should offer upgrades.

I am not sure of what you're saying, perhaps partly because I don't own a car, and never have since I got my driver's licence at age 38 or so. I do recall a neighbour of mine saying "back when cars went rusty" to me a decade back, which surprised me. A lot. Apparently they don't now? But modern cars, and many modern motorbikes, are sealed units which are not maintainable by the end-user. I dislike electronics like th…

Galvanized steel and clear-coat paint finish are a huge part of why cars don’t rust as much as they used to. (But salt will eventually take a toll if you are coastal or live where roads are regularly salted.) Alternative materials like stainless-steel coated aluminum, or plastic coatings also contribute.

Here’s an article contemporaneous to the rise of clearcoats and galvanization: https://www.csmonitor.com/1985/1025/hrust.html

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#256

Post by kryogen1c »

sundvor wrote: post #156
Shakahs wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The upgrades aren’t even substantial. The CPU, RAM, and fan are all original parts. You could’ve ordered this exact configuration from Lenovo. The only deviation from stock is the AC WiFi upgrade. I daily drive a T530, it was max spec already so I haven’t changed anything. It has more than enough power to do software dev.

I see you also follow my rule: When buying a laptop, always buy top spec. My laptop is an OG X1 Carbon i7/8/256. I can't upgrade it easily, but I'm actually happy with it for my purposes. My main driver is a Ryzen desktop though, that's a proper beast.

> I see you also follow my rule: When buying a laptop, always buy top spec.

ive become a believer for both desktops and laptops.

the ratio of hardware performance to software performance requirements increases over time, but its linear and the slope is small. knowing that, you can buy cheap machines frequently or expensive machines infrequently and hit a similar $/time expenditure - but one way you get fast puterz and the other way you dont.

the details matter of course. $/performance hits a sharp breakpoint and turns exponential around the 80th percentile. for my money - and everyone i know uninterested in the bleeding edge - a couple notches below the best is an incomparable deal that also saves the time of frequent research/upgrades/purchasing.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#257

Post by bachmeier »

My favorite laptop is an Acer I bought new in early 2009 for maybe $400. The only hardware change I made was to upgrade the RAM from 2 GB to max it out at 4 GB.

There are a couple of advantages. First, it's a joy to type on something with a good keyboard. Part of it is that older laptops have more bulk to them, and that makes for a better typing experience for me. Second, modern displays are the wrong shape. It's hard to find a nearly-square screen these days. Performance is not an issue. It's the most responsive computer I own. I'm running AntiX, a distro that shows how to do lightweight right.

Having said all of the above, one thing limits my usage. It has a 32-bit CPU. Among other things, that means no Electron apps, and one in particular is critical to my workflow.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#258

Post by NGRhodes »

mhb wrote: post #208
NGRhodes wrote: post #30

I like to buy ex-corporate ~5 year old Thinkpads, get from a seller who gives atleast 6 months warranty, put new batteries in and they are usually far better in every way than anything new for the same price. Am currently very happy with my T460S, runs Linux or Win10 great. My previous machines that the kids use for school work and Roblox are x250 and x220, and previous to that I have an X200 and a T61, that all last…

Where do you get new (X220) batteries?

For my X220 I went for a cheap generic Chinese import (either Amazon or Ebay), its about 90% capacity of a genuine, but the price is so low its not a worry.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#259

Post by interfixus »

black_puppydog wrote: post #65

I find it funny how people seem to fixate so much on the fact that the author upgraded various components to say the title is misleading. As someone with apparently similar requirements, the take-away from this should be this: Even though significant work is required to keep these old machines working, some people prefer to do so. Crucially, they prefer it not because they love tinkering, but simply because the value…

My T440p started life in 2013 as a work PC in an engineering firm. Was then retired and sold for scraps to an employee, a friend of mine who later passed it on to me. I splashed out and bought a brand new, higher res display on eBay, less than USD 100 and the quality keeps blowing me backwards. Plus 8GB more RAM for a total of 12, and a new 1TB Samsung SSD, and soon perhaps a battery replacement. And they can damned well pry the thing from my cold, dead hands. It's just a superbly well designed and satisfying piece of machinery to handle.

Meanwhile, a much newer Lenovo is sitting largely unused except for the occasional batch job and some audio processing.

Re: I went back to using a ThinkPad from 2012

#260

Post by gocartStatue »

userbinator wrote: post #232

The Intel CPU-s had throttling issues that made them unusable for basic things like calls over Google Meet as they would throttle to 400 MHz. That seems to be a common theme with the newer laptops. Look up "Intel DPTF" and power limits. They are severely throttled by firmware/drivers, long before they actually hit their (thermal) limits. There are various tweaks to unlock the full potential of the CPU, the easiest of…

We hit the 400Mhz problem as well, on corporate high-end 14" Dells. Disabling thermald did not help much, as the laptop almost melted. But we discovered a "magic" spell involving rmmod/modprobe.

It sparked a kind of a custom: - guys, my laptop is throttling hard (...) - here, run this untrusted code snippet as root - yaay, it worked!

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