Live data from Hacker News

BitTorrent v2 (2020)

blog.libtorrent.org

31–40 of 155 posts

Re: BitTorrent v2 (2020)

#31
post #28
post #2

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24401999 - 2020, 1227 points, 562 comments

It would help if HN would automatically link to previous discussions (next to the title?) if there are any... It seems wasteful having people do it manually

That’s what the “past” button does.

Re: BitTorrent v2 (2020)

#33
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unlikely ? all methods are broken eventualy when compute becomes faster

All current methods. Isn’t sha256 an order of magnitude more complex than sha1? It’s not like cryptographers can’t learn from their mistakes.

[deleted]

Re: BitTorrent v2 (2020)

#34
post #6

I assume this is being posted because qBittorrent recently released version 4.4 which includes libtorrent 2.x and therefore support for BitTorrent v2. Hopefully we'll start seeing hybrid torrents/magnets in trackers soon. Although these are mostly automated so I'm not sure how fast the tools will catchup. One thing I'd like qBittorrent and other torrent clients to do is to allow users to upgrade v1 torrents to hybrid…

A bunch of open-source projects would like to use v2 torrents, but because Transmission is so popular and has zero support for v2, nobody can use them. Transmission's dev team hasn't said a word on the matter, ever, in four years:

https://github.com/transmission/transmission/issues/458

Elsewhere someone quipped:

> That transmission bug is 4 years old and they've never announced plans to prioritize it (granted the effort is surprisingly high; they've never allowed empty dict keys in bencoding). I think either they either don't know or don't care that their market share makes them an adoption blocker.

Re: BitTorrent v2 (2020)

#35
post #6

I assume this is being posted because qBittorrent recently released version 4.4 which includes libtorrent 2.x and therefore support for BitTorrent v2. Hopefully we'll start seeing hybrid torrents/magnets in trackers soon. Although these are mostly automated so I'm not sure how fast the tools will catchup. One thing I'd like qBittorrent and other torrent clients to do is to allow users to upgrade v1 torrents to hybrid…

A bunch of open-source projects would like to use v2 torrents, but because Transmission is so popular and has zero support for v2, nobody can use them. Transmission's dev team hasn't said a word on the matter, ever, in four years: https://github.com/transmission/transmission/issues/458 Elsewhere someone quipped: > That transmission bug is 4 years old and they've never announced plans to prioritize it (granted the eff…

In the beginning I used µTorrent, until it got fucked by whatever company that bought it. It was easily the fastest and most resource-smart client I've ever used. After that I tried a bunch, Deluge, Transmission, Azure and plenty more, but only qBittorrent seems to be a suitable replacement (and is open source as well). Now it has BitTorrent V2 support too :) You should really give it a try.

Re: BitTorrent v2 (2020)

#36
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unlikely ? all methods are broken eventualy when compute becomes faster

This is not true. Modern cryptography is not breakable via brute force any more, nor will it ever be. You can prove that the amount of energy required assuming a thermodynamically ideal computer is more than will ever be available in our galaxy, with classical computing. Breaks of symmetric crypto or hashes that are practical require an actual cryptographic weakness, whose existence is not a given. Then there's quant…

Do you have a cite for this for SHA256? It surprises me a bit as our galaxy is big and we are far from physically ideal computers.

Re: BitTorrent v2 (2020)

#37
post #6

I assume this is being posted because qBittorrent recently released version 4.4 which includes libtorrent 2.x and therefore support for BitTorrent v2. Hopefully we'll start seeing hybrid torrents/magnets in trackers soon. Although these are mostly automated so I'm not sure how fast the tools will catchup. One thing I'd like qBittorrent and other torrent clients to do is to allow users to upgrade v1 torrents to hybrid…

Unless I'm mistaken, we'd need to settle on a "default" piece size[1] if we were to have automatic upgrading in a client. I learned recently[2] that there's no standard set by the protocol, so Client A might choose a 16KiB piece size, and Client B might take the same files and choose a 64KiB piece size, resulting in two different hashes (v1 or v2!) and thus two peer pools for the same file set.

1. https://stackoverflow.com/a/65299426/2700296

2. https://github.com/webtorrent/magnet-uri/pull/43#issuecommen...

Re: BitTorrent v2 (2020)

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bunch of open-source projects would like to use v2 torrents, but because Transmission is so popular and has zero support for v2, nobody can use them. Transmission's dev team hasn't said a word on the matter, ever, in four years: https://github.com/transmission/transmission/issues/458 Elsewhere someone quipped: > That transmission bug is 4 years old and they've never announced plans to prioritize it (granted the eff…

In the beginning I used µTorrent, until it got fucked by whatever company that bought it. It was easily the fastest and most resource-smart client I've ever used. After that I tried a bunch, Deluge, Transmission, Azure and plenty more, but only qBittorrent seems to be a suitable replacement (and is open source as well). Now it has BitTorrent V2 support too :) You should really give it a try.

Ironically, the company that bought µTorrent was BitTorrent, Inc[1]. They're the geniuses also responsible for forking IPFS, renaming it to "BTFS", and not acknowledging IPFS as an upstream in any way[2].

1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainberry,_Inc.

2. https://twitter.com/juanbenet/status/1250634833258143744

Re: BitTorrent v2 (2020)

#39
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Wikipedia link is very reassuring regarding the security of SHA256. All attacks are very far away from going anywhere close to attacking full SHA256 and no major progress has been made lately. The password hashing remark is correct, but irrelevant. SHA256 is not a good password hash, because it's not made to be a password hash. Don't use it for passwords. The weaknesses that broke MD5/SHA1 were known since 1994.…

If you want to be reassured then sure. My take from reading that is in 2016 there was practical collision attacks demonstrated, which would be amplified with specialized hardware (compare to bitcoin mining). Btw cheers! I recall you from correspondence years ago regarding fuzz testing linux packages.

> My take from reading that is in 2016 there was practical collision attacks demonstrated

No such thing happened.

You're likely referring to this paper quoted in Wikipedia: https://eprint.iacr.org/2016/374.pdf

This is 1. not about SHA256, but about the truncated sha2 algorithms and, more important, 2. it's an attack on reduced-round versions of these algorithms. That's a common thing in cryptoanalysis to do. You're basically saying "we have no way of attacking the full algorithm, so let's build a version which is much less secure and try to attack that". That's a valid thing to do for research purposes, but it needs to be interpreted correctly. "I can break this massively weaker version of the algorithm" is very different from "I have shown a practical attack on the real algorithm".

Re: BitTorrent v2 (2020)

#40
post #6

I assume this is being posted because qBittorrent recently released version 4.4 which includes libtorrent 2.x and therefore support for BitTorrent v2. Hopefully we'll start seeing hybrid torrents/magnets in trackers soon. Although these are mostly automated so I'm not sure how fast the tools will catchup. One thing I'd like qBittorrent and other torrent clients to do is to allow users to upgrade v1 torrents to hybrid…

A bunch of open-source projects would like to use v2 torrents, but because Transmission is so popular and has zero support for v2, nobody can use them. Transmission's dev team hasn't said a word on the matter, ever, in four years: https://github.com/transmission/transmission/issues/458 Elsewhere someone quipped: > That transmission bug is 4 years old and they've never announced plans to prioritize it (granted the eff…

Wow I didn't realize transmission had its own implementation of the torrent protocol, I thought they used libtorrent like everyone else. According to a comment on that issue it seems that not only does it not support v2, but it also breaks on opening v2 .torrent files. Lots of torrents are generated manually using qBittorrent, i.e. private trackers, this means that torrents might start breaking for transmission users soon.
Post reply on HN